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Accents In The LOTR Movie

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Lidless
Post subject: Accents In The LOTR Movie
Posted: Tue 22 Feb , 2005 1:08 pm
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There were certain things that irked me in the movies - especially the diversity of the hobbits accents. Was the Shire really that large for such a variety to exist? At least they sounded better than the BBC version - which had Merry and Pippin sounding like identical public schoolboys - nothing like rural England the Shire was supposed to represent.

Then there was a glimpse of Sean Bean's Yorkshire accent coming through from time to time - nothing like his father.

Don't get me started on Gimli...

On both the movie and the radio adaption, Gandalf stands out as perfection from both McKellen and Hordern, as does Sam (Astin and Nighy). I can't remember Bakshi's version - probably a blessing.

Anyway, I found this article from Andrew Jack - the linguist on the movie - which goes some way to explaining the accents used.

Andrew Jack wrote:
The following rationale was written as a document during the early days of filming the trilogy, and was a guide for us to adhere to as closely as possible. Since the release of the films, it will be apparent that some changes took place during production. For example, the names of Sméagol and Déagol are Old English and should have reflected that fact in pronunciation (/smexol/ and /dexol/ or SMEH-CHOL and DEH-CHOL using a Scottish "ch" as in "loch",) but it was felt that most of the fans were calling them /smi:gl/ and /di:gl/ or SMEE-GOL and DEE-GOL. To avoid confusion we used the popular pronunciation.

We had intended that the Orcs and Uruk-hai would sound evil, with a guttural vocal quality without any accent. However, the decision was made for the Orcs to be "Cockney," thus bringing a modern urban sound to what was otherwise a rural and altogether separate world of accents. The Uruk-hai retained our original intention.
Andrew Jack, November 2004

Dialect and Creative Language Department

ACCENT RATIONALE
The common speech of Middle-earth was translated into English by J R. R. Tolkien. The differences between the various people of Middle-earth can be distinguished by the variety of English spoken: true to Tolkien's ideas, we have based the accents of the people of The Lord of the Rings on varieties of UK English.

We began with the Hobbits; since their accents were to be based on English accents and we were aware that we were looking for something timeless and rustic, we chose the speech of Gloucestershire which gave us everything we were looking for without being too heavily West Country. This is a rhotic accent and is spoken by all the Shire Hobbits except the Baggins and the Tooks. Samwise Gamgee (Sam) can be considered a working-class Hobbit: he is the son of a gardener. Sam's accent is as strong as the other Shire Hobbits. Bilbo and Frodo Baggins are educated Hobbits and considered slightly different owing to their love of learning and adventure. Their accent reflects the patterns of accents within the UK where the more educated the speaker, the less localisable and the closer to RP or "Received Pronunciation." RP is the Standard English accent spoken by educated English speakers everywhere. Initially, we wanted Peregrin Took to have the same accent as the other Hobbits, In pre-production it soon became apparent to Peter Jackson and to us that it was impossible to maintain Billy Boyd's wonderful energy (perfect for Pippin) within a laid-back West Country accent and that somehow Billy's Scottishness informed the character. It was at this time that we discovered Tolkien intended Took to rhyme with Luke. This is the way a Scot might pronounce Took, but not the way a West Countryman would. All of our discoveries supported the choice of a light Scottish accent for Pippin... the Tooks are descended from the Fallohide branch of Hobbits... they "had more skill in language and song” (T3).... were often found as leaders or "Thains" ('Thane' is a Medieval Scottish term for a clan leader) . . . "even in Bilbo's time the strong Fallohidish strain could still be noted among" them **(T3) and Pippin was born and brought up in Tookland, not Hobbiton. Meriadoc Brandybuck (Merry) is a cousin of both Frodo and Pippin and from a well-to-do family. As the character seems to want to be a “bit of a lad” we developed a Gloucestershire accent like Sam Gamgee's, but less broad and rarely dropping the 'h's.

The people of Gondor (Boromir, Faramir, Denethor) spoke a more "antique language... more formal and more terse" (T1107). We chose RP (Received Pronunciation) to represent this way of speech and “coloured” it with undertones of the speech of the counties of northern England (which are generally perceived as a little more terse). This style of speech conjures up a degree of formality as well as a warrior-like demeanour, which is especially good for Boromir.

The accent of the people of Rohan was based on Tolkien's description of their speech and from studying the map of Middle-earth. These people still spoke their ancestral tongue, which was "related both (more distantly) to the Common Speech and (very closely) to the former tongue of the northern Hobbits" (T1110). We started with the same accent as the Gondorians, (i.e. RP) but decided to make the accent rhotic and chose a light Irish R. This makes the speech of the Rohans sound more formal than the speech of the Hobbits and yet has a feature in common with them. "It is noted.... when Hobbits heard the speech of Rohan they recognised many words and felt the language to be akin to their own” (T1110). This can also be said of rhotic speakers of modern English.

On the map of Middle-earth, Rohan is situated between Gondor and the Shire with a range of mountains separating each area (Gondor and the Shire having two mountain ranges between them). This further supports the linguistic similarities and differences of the three peoples. The lords of Rohan "used the Common Speech freely, and spoke it nobly after the manner of their allies in Gondor" (T1103). Theoden was born and brought up in Gondor and when his father Thengel returned to Rohan with the family "the speech of Gondor was used in his house, and not all men thought that good" (T1044). Thus it follows that Theoden would speak with the same accent as the Gondorians. His nephew and niece, Eomer and Eowyn, were born and brought up in Rohan, as were their parents. Although they grew up in Theoden's house we decided they should speak with a Rohan rather than a Gondorian accent to reflect their proximity to the people of Rohan. Wormtongue, although a man of Rohan, is looked on as an outsider and the character does not seem to feel one with the people of Rohan. The character separates himself from these people in every way including his speech, refusing to use the R sound as his compatriots do.

The Elves speak all the languages of Middle-Earth and in common with other linguists they have awareness and accuracy of speech: "Quendi" means "the Speakers" (The Complete Guide to Middle-earth). When speaking English they use RP, foregoing any sounds that might be perceived as modern or slovenly.

Aragorn was raised secretly in Rivendell by Elves and therefore is familiar with all the languages of Middle-earth. He spent nearly 70 years among various peoples and in various guises; he has the ability to modify his speech according to where he is and who he's with (a requirement of being incognito); he does not belong to any particular place or people. We decided to create a way of speaking that illustrated these characteristics, choosing RP vowels, an Irish 'R' and an idiosyncratic rhythm.

Gandalf and Saruman both use RP to give themselves an air of authority and communication power without any identifiable place of origin. We also felt that this should be the reasoning behind the choice of accent and vocal quality for the Mouth of Sauron and the Witch King.

For the Orcs and the Uruk-hai it is the vocal quality rather than relying on a particular accent that reflects their evil characteristics, brutality and physical ugliness.

GolIum/Sméagol uses R.P. with vocal qualities to indicate the two personalities. Sméagol and Déagol (Stoor Hobbits) have a light Gloucestershire accent similar to the Shire Hobbits. Given Gollum's circumstances over the course of 500 years, we believe vocal quality would take precedence over accent. Similarly, the Ents are distinguished by vocal quality rather than accent.

This rationale is the result of work in progress from 1st September 1999 through the shooting of The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
And here's another article of interest:
Miranda Moore wrote:
How Elijah Wood learnt Elvish

Inside the raggedy plastic bag on the table is one of the most closely guarded secrets in Hollywood: the script for all three Lord of the Rings movies. Dialogue coach Andrew Jack shouldn't have brought it along, but he wants to show me how he taught Elvish to some of Hollywood's biggest stars. I'm honoured. Once upon a time even the identity of the actors was shrouded in secrecy, and amongst the million-or-so Lord of the Rings fans around the world, there are those who would fight Sauron to get their paws on the original script.

Scribbled in the margin are notes on pronunciation, additional speeches in Elvish, and details of linguistic mistakes for every take. Jack, uprooted to New Zealand for the shoot, dedicating 16 months to the trilogy, instead of the usual 12 weeks or so per film, and for the actors the language training required an extra six weeks work. Jack and assistant coach Róisín Carty sat with the actors in make up every day, talking them through a series of facial exercises and sounds designed to prepare their muscles for the invented language dialogue. Picture the dressing-room scene: John Rhys-Davies (Gimli) booming orders in Dwarvish, Elijah Wood (Frodo) muttering strange Elvish sounds and the pixie features of Liv Tyier (Arwen) contorted in a facial work-out.

"It's exciting because there are all these wonderful creatures who have languages of their own," says Jack. "Languages are an important part of the story." There was never any question that Tolkien's languages would appear in the films despite the huge commitment involved. They were 'the foundation' of Tolkien's work and in The Lord of the Rings he tried to recreate a world of myths and culture which he believed England had lost. As thick as the average novella, Tolkien's appendices carefully record the grammatical rules and accents of languages like Sindarin, Rohirric and Black Speech in minute detail. "Tolkien's notes on pronunciation are so extensive it felt like he was actually encouraging us to make the movie!" says Jack. These languages were made to be spoken.

When it came to the Elvish tongues of Sindarin and Quenya, Tolkien created legitimate languages with their own etymologies and structures, so it was possible to include plausible dialogue that did not appear in the book. Jackson enlisted the help of Elvish expert David Salo to find accurate translations. "Often when we were working on set someone would say 'why don't we do this bit in Elvish?' Off went the email to Salo, who'd send back a translated version. The actors would do it on set in Elvish that same afternoon," explains Jack.

The film opens with Cate Blanchett speaking in Elvish. The languorous Sindarin lilt sounds a lot like Welsh. "You have to hold on to each syllable in Sindarin, like you do in Welsh. So if there are two 'm's you hang on to the 'mmm' sound," says Jack. "Elvish is a very poetic language." In The Fellowship of the Ring the biggest chunk of Sindarin is spoken between lovers. When Arwen and Aragorn meet in the rural paradise of Rivendell they speak in dulcet Elvish tones - a conversation unintelligible to the audience (but for the addition of subtitles) and all the more romantic for it.

The poetic nature of Elvish created its own problems, making it difficult for the actors to find the appropriate rhythm of speech. "It's very hard to know how to act something if you don't know exactly what it means, so we had to find out the direct translation, as well as the poetic translation," explains Jack.

But the biggest problem was that the entire crew pronounced many of the names incorrectly and the actors got used to the incorrect pronunciation. "It got so bad they started saying things wrong on set. For example, there are creatures called mumakil and the singular form is mumak, but people were saying 'there's a mumakil over there' and the actors got really confused." With thousands of die-hard fans and countless websites dedicated to The Lord of the Rings and its languages, it was important to get the details right. Because the book is so well known everybody has their own idea of how names and words should be said, and not all of them have taken the trouble to study Tolkien's notes. "Some people were bound to be disappointed with the way things were pronounced in the film, but we were determined that their disappointment would be with Tolkien and not with us," says Jack.

Jack and Carty often worked a six-day week, travelling between locations on their day off. Towards the end of the shoot there were up to six units shooting dialogue simultaneously and the coaches dashed manically from scene to scene to pick up any linguistic mistakes and note down deviations from the original script. Because so much of the trilogy was filmed outside most of the dialogue was revoiced in the studio at the end of the shoot, and Jack's main concern was that the lip movements were correct so there could be continuity at the dubbing stage. The details of every take had to be recorded on the scripts.

It was a mammoth job, but well worth the effort. With such enormous success, Jack can't help feeling some ghostly intervention has been going on. "Some very spooky things happened," he says. On one occasion Orlando Bloom fluffed his line, only to discover later on that there was a mistake in the script and he had inadvertently used the correct word. (:Q - Lidless) "You have to wonder where Orlando got the right word from," says Jack. The whole 'Hand of Tolkien' theory sounds somewhat unlikely. Tolkien famously hated Hollywood. When he received a film proposal in 1958 he condemned the script for deviating from the original book and only sold the film rights to pay off a bad debt. But Jack is convinced. "I like to think that Tolkien is looking down at us from above approvingly. In fact, I'm certain of it."

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Leoba
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Posted: Tue 22 Feb , 2005 1:24 pm
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That was supposed to be a Gloucestershire accent that Sam had. :Q :LMAO:

I never did buy into the concept of Merry and Pippin talking with regionalised accents. Hobbits of their class surely ought to all speak with RP?!!

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 5:55 pm
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But would there be an RP if there weren't upper-class boarding schools to teach it? Both Merry and Pippin were presumably educated at home by family members or local tutors. At least, we hear nothing of hobbit boarding schools or colleges.

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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Mon 07 Mar , 2005 9:49 pm
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Sean Astin's accent is all over the place! The bit that makes me really LARF is when Sam seems to adopt an Irish accent on the banks of the Anduin in the FOTR EE, when Boromir gets all snarky with Aragorn and Frodo is wrapped in beautiful melancholy gloom. 'Ah now, Mr. Frodo, are you sure you're all right now? Jaisus Mary and Joseph, are you sure now?' OK, I exaggerate but you watch that bit and listen HARD.

Don't get me wrong, I think Astin's Sam is lovely. :) But there are times when he sounds more Kansas than Shire. Or even Irish. :D

Bill Nighy as Sam in the BBC LOTR does the most perfect rural Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire/whatever accent. Lovely. :)

Elijah's accent as Frodo ... that soft breathy tenor ... don't get me started ... :love:

I don't mind Boromir's Sheffield accent. Heck, it's Sean BEAN. Whether he's playing Sharpe, or Boromir, or Odysseus, he's just Sean Bean, and it's totally OK. :D I mean ... it's Sean BEAN. He's not the greatest actor in the world, we know that, but he was lovely as Boromir - his finest hour - and, well, I just get a kick out of Boromir on Caradhras shouting through the snow, 'Eh, we can't go that chuffin' way, lads, we need to get back to mah city.' :D

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Lidless
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Posted: Tue 08 Mar , 2005 3:15 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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"...'n put on kettle."

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Berhael
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Posted: Tue 08 Mar , 2005 4:48 pm
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"...'n put on t'kettle."

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Winged Balrog
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 1:43 pm
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One th'crossbeams's gone ou've skew on th'treddle!

I agree on Sam's accent. It definitely broke down occasionally, though never at vital moments, fortunately. And I also agree that Gandalf's accent was utter perfection... probably because McKellan based his delivery on Tolkien's own readings.

Last edited by Winged Balrog on Sat 12 Mar , 2005 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Leoba
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 2:13 pm
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Di of Long Cleeve wrote:
I don't mind Boromir's Sheffield accent. Heck, it's Sean BEAN. Whether he's playing Sharpe, or Boromir, or Odysseus, he's just Sean Bean, and it's totally OK. :D I mean ... it's Sean BEAN. He's not the greatest actor in the world, we know that, but he was lovely as Boromir - his finest hour - and, well, I just get a kick out of Boromir on Caradhras shouting through the snow, 'Eh, we can't go that chuffin' way, lads, we need to get back to mah city.' :D
I'm sw :love::love: ning now, just hearing those lines in my head.

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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 4:10 pm
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Given the number of regional dialects and subdialects present in England before the advent of the printing press--we're talking DOZENS, maybe over 100, I don't have a problem with the Took/Brandybuck regionalism.

Personally, though, I think Boromir and Faramir and Denethor should have all sounded like Chico Marx. :devil:

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 9:31 am
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I think if you listen closely most of the actors slip up once or twice. :)

Frodo: Where are you going? I don't understand. [Bag End]

Merry: Well what d'you suppose that means? [Hollin]

Aragorn: I would have followed you to the end. [Breaking of the Fellowship]


IMHO Ian McKellen was perfect, and Billy Boyd's accent never faltered (if only because it was real. :P) I expected Pippin and Merry to use RP too though. I wouldn't have expected them to sound so different to Bilbo and Frodo.

In a land the size of the Shire there probably would have been quite a lot of variation, since the hobbits tended not to travel very often. I've heard of tiny islands where the people on one side can't understand the people on the other. :damnfunny

Great articles Lidless. :D

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eborr
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Winged Balrog wrote:
One th'crossbeams's gone ou've skew on th'treddle!
Hmm thats West Yorkshire - Sean Bean is South Yorkshire, seems to me dialect is a function of community not place, so Pippin, Merry and Frodo should have sounded the same - I think they should have adopted the an accent from the Warickshire/Oxfordshire border, bacause that would have been truer to Tolkien - in fact I think they should really have gone the whole hog and have the Hobbit peasantry speaking pure brummie - I am sure that sub-titles could have been added to assist non native speakers.

I was never happy with the Orcs speaking cockney - they impression that I get from the cockney accent is not stupidity and nastiness - more a kind of smug, unpleasant smart-ass, which is not my vision of the Orc. They should have given the Rohirrm that very cumbrian or even East Yorkshire accent which would be a tribute to the Viking or Nordic associations


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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 11:42 am
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We are not told in the film where Merry and Pippin are from, but given the lack of any evidence to the contrary they could well be from different parts of the Shire. In fact it seems likely given their meeting with Frodo and Sam in a part of the Shire further that Sam had ever been. It is not so peculiar to have widely varying accents given the tendency of Hobbits to be parochial. Where I live in Ireland I am 15 miles from Limerick City and 15 miles from Ennis Town. The accents in these two places are so different that they could well be from different countries. Is it so unlikely that the Hobbits from different parts of the Shire could have different accents?

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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 12:18 pm
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No :) but a Scottish-sounding Took is pushing it a bit, I think. :D In terms of the Shire's geography!

The BBC Orcs also had cockney accents, so I have no objection to PJ's Orcs having the same! I love it. It just makes me :LMAO:

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Sister Magpie
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[quote="Pippin4242"]I think if you listen closely most of the actors slip up once or twice. :)

Frodo: Where are you going? I don't understand. [Bag End]



I was just watching FOTR last night and my favorite Frodo slip is when Gandalf leaves and he says, "But you've only just arrIIIIved with that American "i." I was recently reading a discussion between Brits and Americans about what exactly an American accent sounded like to a Brit and the two main things seemed to be "nasal" and "crazy with the vowels."

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 8:35 pm
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Hmmm, maybe that was the line I was thinking of. I haven't seen teh film in a while. :oops:

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eborr
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Listen to the added Faramir - Pippin scene in the EE there's a definate strine in the Air


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sh_wulff
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Frodo's accent also slips badly during the Osgiliath scene

"Fehramir!"

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truehobbit
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Axordil wrote:
Given the number of regional dialects and subdialects present in England before the advent of the printing press--we're talking DOZENS, maybe over 100, I don't have a problem with the Took/Brandybuck regionalism.
Where my folks come from, people can tell the different accent in the local dialect of people from the next village!
I'm sure this used to be, or still is, the same in rural England. :)

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Primula_Baggins
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Alatar's talked about that still being true in Ireland.

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jewelsong
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Lidless, thanks for pasting those articles! It shows me (once again!) the immense care that was taken in making these films!

I had no problem with the hobbits having different accents...and if they "slipped" once in a while, so what? I loved that they kept Billy's Scottish brogue; it was perfect for Pippin's character and emphasized the fact that he was from a different place than Hobbiton or Buckland. The Shire was pretty big and it is not a big stretch to imagine many different accents and ways of speaking.

The Elvish was cool, too... :D


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