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I respectfully request that I be banned.

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Berhael
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Posted: Thu 24 Mar , 2005 4:28 pm
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Because her permissions have been reset to "off" temporarily, as per her request.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Thu 24 Mar , 2005 8:22 pm
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Iavas_Saar wrote:
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Iavas, people's right to grieve in their own way ends where it harms others, just like with anything anyone does.
I think Imp is right. The way a few people here (and on TORC) deal with their grief and hurt is like what you see in the Middle East or Northern Ireland. I fully understand the desire to throw stones - but it's not going to help anyone, you know. It'll just result in more hurt and perpetuate the suffering on all sides.
Who exactly are you comparing to terrorists and for what actions? I sure don't think that comparison is going to help anyone either.
I'm comparing nobody to terrorists - if you think everybody who lives in the Middle East or Northern Ireland are terrorists, I think that's really sad for you.
I'm thinking of people who are hurt and angry and express that by throwing stones - and each time a stone hits someone else, someone is added to those who are angry and hurt enough to throw stones. It's a vicious circle.
I've felt myself that sometimes it feels good to throw a stone. That's why I can emphathise. It gives you a kind of satisfaction to do that. But I also know that one must fight that urge. No hurt gives anyone a right to hurt someone else.
It takes a lot of self-control to learn that. People in the Middle East and Northern Ireland are prime examples of not having learnt that yet - and of the consequences of that.

(And just in case, to prevent further confusion: this is an image , an analogy - I'm not accusing anyone of actually throwing stones - the image is meant to illustrate the effects of being irreconcilable, of (to quote from Imp's post again) 'nursing grudges and lashing out' instead trying to seek peace.

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Thu 24 Mar , 2005 9:13 pm
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Sorry for misunderstanding you. Obviously I don't think everyone in those countries is a terrorist, but when those places are mentioned it's often in that context.

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Eruname
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Posted: Fri 25 Mar , 2005 5:06 am
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I think it would be best to stay away from that sort of imagery or analogy because all it does is incite bad feelings.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 27 Mar , 2005 8:54 pm
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Iavas, thanks for understanding! :)

It's a different perception, then, that made the image not work for you, I'm sorry I didn't think of that possibility - I thought mentioning stone-throwing was a clear image - for me, when I think of those regions, I only see people who are besides themselves with anger, and how that makes peace impossible. I'm kind of wondering now what others made of that image. :(

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samaranth
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 12:51 pm
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Truehobbit, I think that the point you – and Impenitent – were making was a valid one, and that seems to have been lost in the comments about whether or not you have chosen an acceptable imagery to convey them.*

One of the aspects of this board that I had been impressed with (up until last Thursday when I discovered the thread about Wilko [now in the Bike Racks] and this thread) was the respect members showed one to the other. I was saddened by the nature of the responses posted in these threads, particularly by the defensiveness, the suspicion, and the apparent failure to honestly consider the impact of what is being written. In this medium it is critical to think about the implications of what it is you write. And it is equally as important to read and respond to what other people have written without becoming so defensive, because the actual issues are just becoming lost in the heat.

I understand that there has been a lot of grief experienced by many people on B77 in the past month or so. But I would agree with you, and with Impenitent, that this does not give anyone a licence to lash out, or to respond impulsively and then try and excuse any damage they might have caused on the grounds that it was due to what has happened to them. That might be the reason, and it may be something you feel some of sympathy for, but it is no excuse.

When I first registered I went to the Welcome Forum, and read this:

"Each member of Board 77 shall endeavour to present a courteous attitude to all they encounter both on and off the boards, to treat fellow posters as human beings, show respect for individual sensibilities, and to support fellow members in both posting and creative efforts."

So while the convention is now underway to draw up a comprehensive set of terms of service, the rule of right here and now is that we at all times – even when very distressed or passionate about a particular event - communicate with courtesy. That means listening, and trying to understand the opposing point of view before jumping up to defend yourself from accusations real or imagined.


* Just for the record, I understood the relevance of your references to Northern Ireland, and the spiral effect of grievance and counter-grievance. To be honest, I was more offended by Iavas’ quick drawing of the line between your analogy and terrorism. He subsequently clarified his comments and so I didn’t think it was an issue that I needed to follow up with him.


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