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Should Postcounts be hidden?

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Post subject: Should Postcounts be hidden?
Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:49 pm
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This came up in Voronwe's thread about opening B77 and I'd like to follow it through here. My own opinion is that Postcounts are detrimental to the board. They give an impression of seniority that is false and unhelpful. Posters with low postcounts are often dismissed as unimportant or not worthy of attention. In addition to this they promote spamming and bandwidth waste.

Firstly, perhaps an Admin can tell me if postcounts can be hidden?

Everyone else, just tell me what you think. I'll let discussion run and if necessary I can start a poll later.

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:57 pm
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Although I'm not a current active Admin anymore I think I can confidently answer you that 'no', on this free phpbb board we cannot hide postcount.

So - for the time being, I'm afraid to say this point is somewhat moot, but of course it's still very valid considering the future.

I don't think postcount is detrimental. It's some people's attitude towards it ;) In and by itself it does not mean much, not to me in any case. So to have it or not, I don't really care either way. However, postcount has come up as a 'qualifier' for jury duty. Mind you, it's not much - 100 posts and 3 months membership (to be ratified by the membership at larger later, when the whole document is ready). I don't think we can get away form it entirely ;)
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Lidless
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:20 pm
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I'd pay this idea more attention if it weren't for the fact Alatar has a crappily-low post count.

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Nin
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:30 pm
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You are just angry that you did not get a 2000 party....

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:36 pm
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I don't think post counts are detrimental at all unless you have some sort of post count envy. It just indicates how active certain members are on the board. Do many people really sneer at those with low post counts?

I disagree that a post count promotes spamming, unless the poster in question has some desire to reach a certain number in a short length of time.

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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 5:21 pm
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Nah, I think it's fun.


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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 5:22 pm
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I think post counts are helpful (and, Lidless, note my low post count). Honestly, I dislike the concept of spamming to get post counts up - does anyone REALLY gain some great prestige from having some given number of posts on some random Internet message board? But, I think it's helpful to see who has been involved in the board and how much they've invested.

I have never felt unworthy of attention or dismissed for my low post counts either here (under 200, I think) or at TORC (900 something). However, I think that early join dates and high post counts do merit some respect in this strange online world we inhabit, and I don't have an issue with that.

Last edited by tolkienpurist on Mon 09 May , 2005 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 5:47 pm
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I don't care what we do with post counts one way or another, but would like to add that if people want to hide them, we can always modify this requirement for jury eligibility. Besides, the post count is probably recorded somewhere visible to admins, even if members can't see it.

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Alatar
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:01 pm
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tolkienpurist wrote:
I think it's helpful to see who has been involved in the board and how much they've invested.
See, there's my point right there. My postcount would be far higher were I not putting over half my online time into the Charter. My postcount is lower because I am investing heavily in the board. The issues being discussed in the Jury Room require a lot of time and effort and because of this I have very little time to put into the more frivolous threads where I could easily rack up my postcount.

The problem is that there is an assumption that those with higher postcounts have more merit than those with lower. Should I drop the charter and go join the flirting thread? Would that make me a better poster?

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:45 pm
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Alatar wrote:
The problem is that there is an assumption that those with higher postcounts have more merit than those with lower.
Who has this assumption? I have never gotten this feeling from anyone on this board, low or high post counted people. Can you point to any posts about this or give us some numbers on the amount of posters who supposedly assume this?
Alatar wrote:
Should I drop the charter and go join the flirting thread? Would that make me a better poster?
Can you keep up with TTBK and Suga? They're pretty hardcore. :P

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:48 pm
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I have no opinion on this issue. :)


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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:50 pm
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I don't think Alatar is only talking about this board because I don't think we have this problem right now. What he described definately goes on at TORC...and I've experienced it elsewhere. I think he wants to keep this from occurring here.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:57 pm
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I haven't seen it happen here. I have no problem with hiding post counts if that's what people prefer, but maybe (when we can do it at all) it could be done in such a way that the count would be visible in people's profiles.

That way it wouldn't be prominently displayed, but still there when needed. There are some times when it's useful to know how familiar someone is with the board, and post count combined with join date is a quick-and-dirty way of estimating that. I see it being used a lot after we open, when there are strangers on the board.

For example, if someone was openly rude to me, I would react differently if they had 22 posts and a week on the board than if they had 220 and two months. In the former case I would assume they hadn't absorbed enough of the board culture to know how to behave, and I would try to educate them in a friendly way. In the latter case I might let myself be offended.

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Alatar
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:58 pm
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Thanks Eru. That's really my point. We're planning for a future when there will be many more members on this board and this was certainly a problem on TORC. I'd like to avoid that problem here if possible.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 8:06 pm
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Well, now that I understand where your concern is coming from (sorry, but I was not going to assume your concern without you stating it), I still do not see keeping the post counts visible as much of a problem, unless b77 gets as big as TORC.

I'm kind of in agreement with Prim. I don't care too much if post count is hidden if that's what gets decided, though I won't vote to hide it because I think it's a silly thing to hide. I do like to see it just to see about how active people are. Personally, I don't react differently to people with low post counts or high ones, it's most post quality that I look at (Manwe is/was a lot like this).

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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 8:09 pm
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Agree, TED. Perhaps us Manweistas never got exposed to this since many phenomenal and well-respected posters had really low post counts (Noetherian, comes to mind, as does Kushana, both amongst my personal favorite TORCers).


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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:31 am
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Alatar, I take your point, but that's not what I meant. There are two things that I glance to, in order to see whether someone is "invested" in any given board. The first is their join date, and the second is their post count.

(to use TORC for the first point, since this board is too new) I wouldn't somehow value the opinion of someone who joined in 2000 over the opinion of someone who joined in 2002. But, I'd possibly value it (wrt to board related stuff) over someone who joined in January 2005, simply because the 2000 and 2002 posters have been part of the board longer, have seen it go through more, etc.

The second thing, however, is that some people join a board early and disappear for long periods of time. There are people who joined TORC in 2000 and 2001 who have postcounts of under 100-200, because they only sporadically participated. Unless I see a statement from them to indicate that they were there the entire term, but just lurked, I'd assume that they only made 100 posts in five years because they had periods of sporadic activity, and weren't as invested in the board as a member who joined in 2000 and had 5000 posts.

Honestly, if someone has 600 posts and someone else has 1600, not a big deal. It wouldn't even occur to me to pay attention. But, if someone has 10 posts, and someone else has 8000, I might view what the 8000-post poster has to say about the future of the board with more seriousness (unless that 8000 post person was clearly just a spammer in talk threads who didn't have much to say).

And in threads not relevant to the future of the board, I couldn't care less about post count. Those are the ones in which I participate the most. In recent Symposium threads on animal rights, Scalia, gay marriage, abortion, and women's health issues, I highly doubt that any post count is relevant. I couldn't tell you what any of the participants' post counts were.

Honestly, I care about writing posts in which I communicate something relevant, and I tend to be verbose. I couldn't care less what the number next to my name is, but I think it's a matter of harmless fun for some people.

EDIT And the bottom line is, active members know who else is active, and how they are contributing. In my online experience, respect is shown for serious, thoughtful contributions, not for spam.


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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:58 am
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I empathise with Alatar's thesis because I am aware that there have been instances of neglect (elsewhere) which seemed tied to post count.

However, I personally have never experienced it and for myself, I don't notice postcount! I just don't look at it and am always taken aback by the postcount milestone celebrations. They just seem so... :scratch

I don't really care enough about this issue to state an opinion either way. Personally, it's a non-issue but if there are others who feel strongly about it and want post-count hidden - and when it can be done - will be fine with me.

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Dindraug
Post subject: Re: Should Postcounts be hidden?
Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:26 am
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Alatar wrote:
My own opinion is that Postcounts are detrimental to the board. They give an impression of seniority that is false and unhelpful.
No, only start dates show seniority. That is how we tell the lesser beings :devil:

Although, if you do look at postcounts and compare it to the date joined, it is a good way to tell the spammers. A lot of people, myself included, who were active when this place statrted lost much of our post count in threads that have since been deleted. In real terms, post count does not matter a jot, but you can get an idea of the involvement in trhe board from them. Sort of.

Read what people write, that is the best way to see if a post count is worthy or not. And Alandriel is right, there is no easy way to switch off post count unless you make the concious effort to as an individual ;)

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Rowanberry
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 10:39 am
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Post counts should not matter, but rather what one has to say. On some boards where the post count is hidden, there are people whose posts really catch my attention in a positive way; and, I've been truly surprised to see how low post counts some of them actually have even after a long membership (the post counts are visible in their profile). But, on those boards, just like here, a high post count doesn't bring you any fancy titles or other privileges; one can get those only by contributing in some other way.

On the other hand, I've also come up against the attitude that, the more posts one has, the more "important" contributor s/he is, regardless of the nature and quality of the posts, and I find that kind of attitude very unhappy. :nono: On one messageboard (which I left long ago) some people with post counts in thousands in a relatively short time might even tell people with lower post counts to shut up, because with such a low number of posts, they shouldn't have anything to say of the subject matter... :x

If that kind of attitude can be avoided here, it's OK to keep the post counts visible; otherwise, I'd rather opt for hiding them.

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