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Movies and Music - Should they be renamed?

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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 2:38 pm
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I think we should name them "arthur" and "emilio."

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Estel
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:09 pm
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Alatar wrote:
However, I still think that the current titles do not reflect the culture of respect that I have found here.

What they *do* reflect is a hell of a lot of effort on the part of the Ranger who created the forum, updated the permissions so posters could access it, and spent a good bit of time trying to figure out the name for it. The effort alone DOES show the culture of respect found on these boards.

I can't speak for the Ranger who created the movies forum. As the person who created the music forum though... I spent about three hours going through a book of music phrases & definitions, writing down all the words I thought were not only beautiful, but whose definition would be a good representation of that forum on board 77. After narrowing it down, discussing it with others, and figuring out which one to use, I then created the forum and spent about three more hours individually updating each posters permissions so that they would have access to the forum. Then I found all the threads that would fit into that forum and moved them there

To have someone, months later, come and say, "too bad about the effort, but the forum title sucks and isn't representative, at least in MY mind" is really hurtful and demeaning.

Am I overreacting? Probably. I can't tell you the pride I feel when I come online, see the forums, and think "Wow, I made that. I did something lasting and important. Something good." Now to find out - "erm, no you didn't. Your effort was worth nothing. Should've just named it 'MUSIC' so that when it got changed, you wouldn't have cared.

Hell, lets just change the name of Board77 while we're at it. I mean, it's so generic, and meaningless. Nobody cares, right? Especially about Alandriel who came up with the name, and built something that really mattered. We need a more representative name that everyone understands.


I'm sorry for my sarcasm, but I must admit, this has angered and hurt me - how callously this is being discussed. To have so much work and effort dismissed out of hand.... please tell me you understand why I feel so strongly about this :(


So long as the sub-titles adequately describe what's in the forum.... why can't the names just remain? And for the record, I've always loved the name of the movies forum even though I have no idea what it means - such effort put in to translating, and such a spirit of fun and mischief in that effort.


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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:20 pm
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:( I had no idea that there had been any meaningful or personal effort into that, Estel. I apologize if I seemed dismissive of that. :hug: :(

(ps - what does La Camerata mean?)


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:24 pm
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I apologize, too. It was insensitive of me not to realize the background involved. I've also created several forums, but I wasn't terribly concerned with what they were called and was okay with letting others name them (though I did root for the Hall of Fire).

Maybe what we get easily we don't value as much! ;) Thanks to your idea of group permissions, Estel, setting everyone's permissions for a forum now takes about twenty-one seconds.

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:34 pm
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I've always been fine with the music forum name.

Of course people couldn't have known how much effort you put into figuring out a good name for that forum Estel. They couldn't know until you told them so I don't think anyone here at all was being disrespectful or callous. Suggesting a name change does not at all discount all the hard work you put into changing everyone's permissions. Personally I wouldn't mind if everyone wanted to rename the Business Room. I still know that I created it and that it's here because of me.

I do understand that you feel hurt and that does make me feel bad. I do hope you can realize that only you, me, Alandriel, Din, Leoba, and Ber know what it took to start up forums back then. Noone else could know about the effort involved or be expected to think about it. So please don't be upset with the people who have posted in this thread. They just plain didn't know.

:hug:

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:46 pm
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Especially about Alandriel who came up with the name

Actually, I think it was Farawen who came up with the name.

But I don't think that the names of things should be off-limits to discussion. Din has been quite blunt about his dislike of Tolkien names and I don't think anyone has felt offended by his opinion. Our whole existence here has been one long challenge to grow consensus from our diversity.

I personally think that La Camerata is a beautiful name for the music forum (thank you, Estel) but I also haven't heard much objection to that name providing it says "music" underneath.

There is a slightly greater problem with the Latin name of the movie forum because it's long and it's not pure Latin but a coinage that might be tough even for Latin scholars.

Jn

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Estel
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 6:50 pm
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yova - jewelsong had a definition a few pages back
"it evokes a small group of people, making music together. Plus it's ITALIAN, the language of lovers and opera"

it also has this definitions

"Small art or music schools dating from the 16th century "

Basically a group of people coming together, learning about and creating music together. It just seems to have such a joyful image when you read the meaning.


Prim - It was creating forums that made me think we should take advantage of the group settings. :P I created, with help, and did the permissions for 6 forums in total ( m77t and geek, La Camerata, Thinking of England, The BikeRacks, The Jury Room and The Archives) and each one was a day long project. Seemed like there had to be an easier way - especially because we couldn't use the "Simple Permissions" for the majority of the posters. I know Eru and the other rangers remember that complication as well.

Eru - I know I was overreacting. I should've waited an hour before posting, but Steve needs the computer for work in an hour, and I'm not able to get online that much anymore. I didn't want to come back and find the name changed before I got a chance to post how I felt. I fully admit to being selfish about this topic :(
Jny wrote:
But I don't think that the names of things should be off-limits to discussion.
It's not that I think it should be off-limits. It was just the... acting as if it didn't matter. As if no one had put a lot of thought or effort into the initial naming.

And my apologies to Alandriel and Fara.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 7:03 pm
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Estel and Eru, the current Rangers can well understand the effort it took to create forums back in the day, having turned off all of those individual permissions for all of those forums for all of the members, all compressed in a short time. Only you guys can appreciate the tediousness of that task.

Estel, its nice to see you posting again. I've missed you. :hug: And I can relate to the pride that you feel in seeing the name that you came up with. I feel the same way about the Hall of Fire, and would be equally upset if someone suggested that it be changed.

However, as the board evolves things that were appropriate in the past may not be appropriate now. Estel, when you created the Music forum I remember thinking that it was a bit strange that there was no discussion about the name, but I didn't say anything but because it was unclear exactly what was appropriate. Now, the primacy of the democratic ideal has become more clearly enunciated and the idea of one person choosing a name without any consultation seems less in line with the culture of the community.

However, as to the name of the music forum I think that the discussion has shown that there is strong support for the name, after all. So I think that your hardwork and inspiration is being recognized and validated, rather then the opposite.


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Angbasdil
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 7:32 pm
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I think I understand how you feel, Estel.
I suggested using the term "m00bies" a few pages back and was (rightfully) talked down from it. But I have to admit, it did piss me off a little. I have a sentimental attachment to that name. It grew fairly organically from the forum, but I played a role in that growth. (As did you, come to think about it. That was were you and I first got to know each other. ) I understand that it's time to move forward, and I even agree. But it still pissed me off when it felt like some people were dismissive of the name and what it represents to me.


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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 7:43 pm
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It's hard to take seriously a man who's perpetually shaking his ass at us. ;)


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 8:02 pm
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I'm sorry if I was one of the ones who seemed dismissive, Ang.

M00bies was dear to me—the name and the place. Losing it hurt.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Movies and Music - Should they be renamed?
Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 8:31 pm
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Alatar wrote:
I'm loth to bring this up as I wasn't here when these fora were named, but with the board opening I am wondering whether they should be renamed? I'm sure when they were named it was for a reason, but I wonder how many newcomers will appreciate that reason. I know it was one of the first questions I asked, and to this day the naming seems incongruous.

Anyway, I'm just gonna throw it out there for discussion and let someone convince me, or not, whatever...
Estel, you'll note that when I broached this subject for duscussion it was on the clear understanding that I was not here when the fora were named and that I did not understand the reason for those names. La Camerata has since been fully explained an I think everyone seems quite happy with it. I understand your pride and I feel the same way about "Made in Dale", a forum that I not only requested be created but also suggested the name for. However, if the membership at large decided that it was too "twee" or vague I would abide by the decision of the majority.

Regarding the Movies forum. This is the one I have a problem with. My points have been made in the last however many pages so I won't repeat them here, but the comment you quoted was specifically related to the Latin titles of the Arts Category and the Movies Forum. I stand by my opinion that these titles are mock pretentious and not indicative of the nature of the fora. In short I believe they are offputting.

I am one member of over 200. My opinion counts for as much and as little as anyone elses. But I will fight for my right to that opinion. That is the nature of a democracy.

My apologies to you for any offense you took as that was certainly not my intention, but I do not apologise for raising the issue.

Alatar

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Angbasdil
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 8:59 pm
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Prim wrote:
I'm sorry if I was one of the ones who seemed dismissive, Ang.
Let me be absolutely clear about this - if I felt that I was owed an apology by anyone, I would have brought it up to them directly. What I had was a gut-level emotional response that, upon reflection, I decided was my own responsibility, so I got over it. No apologies or further discussion neeed.

But thanks for being such a sweetie, Prim. :hug:
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Sassafras
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Posted: Tue 28 Jun , 2005 9:42 pm
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Blame Ang.

:D

Announcer: And now for something completely different - a man with a tape recorder up his nose

We see Michael in a dinner suit on a small stage, with potted plants, etc. He ostentatiously inserts a finger up one nostril. We hear the Marseillaise. He removes his finger and the music stops. He puts his finger up the other nostril, and we hear rewinding noises. Once again he puts his finger up the first nostril and we hear the Marseillaise again. He bows. Shot of film of an old fashioned audience of women clapping.

Announcer: And now a film about a man with a tape recorder up his brother's nose.

Cut to Michael on the same stage, this time with Graham Chapman. Michael puts his finger up Graham's nostril and we hear the Marseillaise. He removes his finger and puts it up Graham's other nostril. We hear the sound of a tape rewinding.

Announcer: And now in stereo

Michael simultaneously puts a finger up hi own nostril and a finger on the other hand, up Graham's nostril. We now here two recordings of the Marseillaise together, but slightly out of sync.


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Sorry.
I couldn't resist.

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Lidless
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 2:16 am
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Latin for the movie forum? How about the old MGM logo with the lion.

Ars Gratia Artis

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Nin
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 8:07 am
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Lidless you are a few pages late..... or Jny is lightyears ahead, which would be normal for a goddess after all. (In other words, this has been proposed)

And just for the record, it was Alandriel who created this messageboard and gave the name.

I don't like the ideas of some attributed to others.

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Rowanberry
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 11:09 am
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Of all the suggestions for the Movies forum so far, I think Moving Pictures would be the best; it's clear, and can be seen not only referring to movies, but to TV and video/DVD as well.

I've got nothing against the present title but, it may cause a few "huh?" reactions.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 3:00 pm
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I had suggested Ars pro gratia artis, and Hobby didn't like it because of its similarity to the MGM motto. Generally, there was no big cheer for that solution. :)

The problem with the main forum title and the movie title is not that they are Latin but that the Latin is too long and unfamiliar. We could, as one possibility, just shorten the main title to Opus Artem.

OT: Now it is my turn to apologize to Alandriel if she is the one who named the board. I know that she started the board but I could have sworn that in the collaborations of the moment it was Farawen who came up with the name. We have to get one of them in here and find out. How the name came about should be inside one of the history threads because that's a question likely to be asked a lot!

Jn

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 5:54 pm
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I don't think the music forum needs a new name at all. I had no idea what it meant, but it is fine by me. I agree with Jn about the main and movie title, though. I also agree with Alatar that they are mock pretentious.

Moving Pictures is fine. Media is fine. Ars pro gratia artis is fine despite not knowing what it means.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Wed 29 Jun , 2005 6:01 pm
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TED: Art for Art's sake.

Jn

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