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Active Bridge Building

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*Alandriel*
Post subject: Active Bridge Building
Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 9:43 am
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This thread was prompted by a post by Impenitent (quoted below) and prompts also by grumpydwarfmom and others concerning active bridge-building efforts on our behalf towards TORC. Sorry for not listing all the names but frankly, that thread is just very difficult to keep track and so I'm opening this separately and hope the discussions in here on the subject can stay focussed.

It's been on my mind since some time to write an email to TPTB at TORC in an effort to build bridges but I've not gotten down to discussing this with you simply because all my time and effort was taken up by getting this board to the point that it's open. We are now, the issue is on the table and I'd like a general membership discussion on it.

But first I want to:
Impenitent wrote:
…

Over the last week or so I have been mulling over how to start a thread which could perhaps work on building bridges. I have refrained, fearful that no matter how well intended, the thread may cause offense, precipitate more pain, cut more ties. This is the opening week; there has been so much contention and strife already I didn’t want to add to it.

But I do so wish we could look at some practical, tangible ways of making people feel welcome! Not ethereal ways (welcome threads and lots of smileys and hoopla) but perhaps difficult and personally confronting things, like going out of our way to personally, privately reaching out to those who we know have been hurt, people we once had cordial relationships with and saying the hard things: "I'm sorry you were hurt, I did not intend it - or perhaps I did intend it at the time because I was also hurt and I was angry - but now I'm very sorry and I want our wounds to heal; to reach new understanding; to build new trust, though that is the hardest thing of all".

Yes, it is a hard ask. And I know a gut response is, "why should I? I'm the victim!" But that helps nothing at all!

Reach out to one person. Email just one person and try to begin a dialogue. Let them know that you regret their pain and wish to heal it and do it in good faith; and put up with the venting that is inevitable, the expressions of hurt and anger and just listen to it, acknowledge it even if it prickles. Repress your knee-jerk response.

And then see whether you can achieve the greatest thing of all; the overcoming of resentment, breaking through the wall of self-protection to create genuine understanding and compassion and friendship.

Eru, I know you have done this; and I know the rebuffs have caused you despondency and pain and perhaps even anger in response. But don't give up! First comes the anger; then comes the dialogue; healing and reconciliation are hard work - yet once achieved, what a paramount achievement!

There are many who have visited since the opening, searched through threads seeking confirmation of their pain and found it. Not surprising. And the first response, the natural, gut reaction to emotional pain is either to cower and hide (that’s what I do) or to hit back (unless one is gifted with extraordinary forebearance and so few of us are). Not surprising either.

And if we had deleted all the evidence, whitewashed the history, the question would always have remained, the doubt always below the surface.

So we have not whitewashed. But now is the time to reach out to those who have had their pain confirmed! And if you feel that THEY should do the reaching out...well, maybe so. Maybe so. But inaction on one side does not justify inaction on the other. It does not. Walk the hard path and we all reap the benefit.

We have opened; some have had the great moral courage to walk in through the door; others NEED someone to actually hold out welcoming hand.
Yes! It would be very nice to do that and hopefully many can find it in themselves to do just that on a person-to-person level yet that is each and everyone's personal decision here and although can be prompted, cannot be really decided upon amongst the membership at large. Prim is not the only one
Prim wrote:
My problem in responding directly to your post, myself, is that I personally don't have anyone to reach out to on TORC.
She also said:
Quote:
Not that I don't care about anyone there, but no one there cares about me, if you know what I mean; word from me would be a pointless blast from the past, and probably would be seen as an attempt to rake up old hurts, if anyone there remembers me at all. Also, I honestly don't think I have offended anyone (except people who would have no interest in reaching back—and who probably did not in fact notice anything I said).
The 'no-one cares about me' might be a misconception and I'm sure plenty of people will remember you Prim as many will remember others of us that don't post there anymore. To make the decision to be part of anything, to behave in any sort of way at any time is everybody's right and responsibility at any one time.

I think it would be the 'honourable' thing to do to attempt writing a group email to the TORC TPTB (Jon, Ted & the Mods) to tell them the past is the past, to declare 'peace' where they had left off with a war declaration, whether they react or not. I don't know abut you – but it sure as hell would make me feel a lot better, being able to put a final 'line' under that piece of history.

Perhaps we can ask if a thread would be allowed in TORF and then each person that wants to can post in there. Somehow I don't think they'll be very open to that idea but I would love nothing better than being proved wrong. In any case, it will have to start with an email, something we can all put together and then those that want, can sign it.

What do you think?

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Leoba
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 10:12 am
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Thank you for starting a new thread, Alandriel. Now get yourself into the Turf / turn on your TV.


I will not sign up to any 'official' correspondence with the owners or administrators of TORC. I left that site a long time ago and owe them nothing.

I think our best chances of 'success' would be on an individual basis - as Imp suggested - contacting existing friends, talking to them, working towards healing any breaches in those relationships.

Although I find that is something I (and no doubt many others) have been trying to do for months anyway, in the few circumstances where there were people I care for outside the fence.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 11:50 am
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Alandriel, thank you for doing this! I received your YM offline - no worries. :)

It is precisely what I had hoped for but I am so unsure of ever having the pulse of this place that I refrained, fearful that my opening of such a thread could only cause more dissent and fallout.

It is my fondest wish that people will post their suggestions and their hopes for healing here.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 12:45 pm
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Alandriel,

I would like to wait a few days before we issue an 'official' invitation to TORCers, whether by inviting members in a thread or asking Jon/Ted/admins/mod to drop by.

Last night I had an email exchange with Alys which makes me think that we still have some things to discuss here on the board regarding the message we wanted to send to those from whom we have been sundered versus the message that is actually being received.

This is a little bit delicate and I would like more time to explain, which I don't have today until much later in the afternoon; and also, I asked Alys a specific question about one important thing and I am waiting for her response.

As for each of us contacting individuals who are important to us, I think that would be great and we should proceed with that if we haven't already done so.

I don't mean to be cryptic, I just have almost no time this morning to discuss.

Jn

p.s. hugs and comfort to all of you Londoners. What an awful event ... this is the curse of our times that civilians are always on the front lines, and I hope all of your families and friends are safe

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 1:31 pm
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I'm in no terrible hurry besides... London today is a big chaotic with the bomb-blasts and all. All I wanted is to open this for serious consideration and discussion. It undoubtedly will take time.

Thanks Impenitent and thanks Jny :)

Leoba: to take part or not in this is of course up to everyone's discretion :)

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 1:59 pm
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I owe Smantie an e-mail. And she might be able to get in touch with a few more fridge-dwellers. :)

*~Pips~*

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 2:53 pm
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I think we need to wait to see what Alys and Jn discuss. I do not have a problem contacting TPTB on TORC, and think it would be a good idea, how well it will work out is something I can not predict.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 3:07 pm
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I had actually drafted a bridge-building email to send to Jonathan when it was clear we were opening. I decided that it was not the time to do that. But perhaps the time is approaching. :)


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oldtoby
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 3:29 pm
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Well If we are building bridges, might I suggest this design:

[ img ]

:D

I think GDM is right. The haze of suspicion and fear that existed 3-4 months ago was at least partially a product of the incidences that had occured and since some time has past has dissapated.

The shirrifs wont be escorting any folks to the borders. ;) After all there are no ruffians here, right?


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 3:48 pm
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I have my doubts that this will work. I think people have already drawn up their own conclusions, and no email to Jon and Ted is going to change those conclusions. But, I'd be willing to change my mind depending on what Jn posts later, and what this email says.

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Farawen
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:00 pm
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Like Leoba, I will not put my signature under any official group email to Jon and Ted. Not ever again. And I'd also like to make it absolutely clear that I don't want to be involved with any thread starting possibly going on in TORF.

Now the individual bridge building idea, on the other hand, I do like. :)


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Rodia
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:07 pm
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I like the individual bridge building. The official is probably a great idea too, but I can't take part in that...I'mnot sure how to explain this but even though I can say right now that I'm happy to start over with stuff that concerns me, I can't disregard the problems my friends still might have with the other side.For an official group letter, I would need more than the majority- I would need everyone to be willing to reach out,and sometimes that would mean people would have to forgive a lot and maybe even agree to forget their hurt and not get any apology or compensation. Um...if you know what I mean.


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Nin
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:08 pm
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What Leoba and Farawen said.

Individually, I stretch out to everyone who is not yet here, and I hope to see some register one day (I will harrass them on IM until they do). But there are not many people left.

I have nothing to say to Jon and Ted.

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:14 pm
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I don't see a need, to be honest. Our friends will come when asked...and haven't we started doing that? Haven't they begun to arrive?

And is this not best addressed one individual at a time, perhaps by individuals? I just don't think an "institutional" approach will do anything that we can't do better on a one-on-one basis, if for no other reason that in this case I think it is impossible to actually craft any statement that will:

A) Accurately reflect the wishes of everyone here

while

B) Accomplishing anything on the other end

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:21 pm
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I think Ax has put his finger on something that bothers me a bit, too.

Some of those who see this place as wrong and a blow aimed at TORC do so because they think of B77 as a monolithic organization where everyone agrees that TORC is the enemy, we all march in lockstep, we all came here for one reason and one reason only, etc., etc. I don't know if "monolithic" gestures are the way to combat this, or to convey the actual truth about this place, which is that we are a bunch of ferrets running in all directions at once.

I won't say that I specificially will not support such a group effort, but I would have to see what it said—and I wonder if individual contacts such as the one Voronwe was considering might in the end be more effective.

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 4:25 pm
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Anyone who wants to mend a fence should certainly do so! But remembering that in the end it's one heart and one mind at a time...

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 7:15 pm
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An organized "bridge" seems unnecessary.

I've already sent emails to every TORCer I've ever exchanged emails with before telling them about this place.

I see no need to do more.

edit: Sent emails to everyone who isn't already here, I mean!


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Eruname
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 10:10 pm
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I'm all for personal bridge building. I won't sign anything that's to Jon and Ted though. Honestly, I really don't think they care. Also, considering that b77 and TORC aren't enemies and it wasn't b77 that had a problem with TORC but just some of it's posters, no official message should come from b77.

edit: I also wouldn't want to be involved with any thread at TORF. I don't think TORC is the venue where discussions are going to take place. I think we would be perceived as a bunch of trouble makers again, it would be locked down and would actually make things worse. If any talking is going to happen, it's probably going to happen here since here the threads will stay open and even if it does get nasty there can be hope for reconciliation since the threads will be allowed to continue.

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The Watcher
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 10:36 pm
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2nd what Eru said.

If someone wants to approach Jon off the boards and see what he thinks, then I would certainly be open to starting another dialogue. I am sorry, I will not do it with Ted. And, I do not know if Jon and Ted stand together on all issues or not.

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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Thu 07 Jul , 2005 10:56 pm
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I just don't know what bridges we need to have with Jon. Does anyone have any reason to think that he was personally hurt by what happened? If so, then yes, I wouldn't be opposed to talking to him off-boards, if there was something positive that he might take from it. I am skeptical that this is the case. I'm not sure what that's positive we would ever take from such an exchange, but perhaps someone can enlighten me. What would our aspirations for such an exchange be?

I agree with those who don't want to have something issue from "the members of b77" as such. If we send anything, it should just be from whatever individuals wish to sign the message.

I think that gdm and Windy reminded me of something oft-said, and really important, with their posts - that perhaps the most central aspects of TORC is/was the community, of which almost all of us were a part. Many who are now b77ers were (or are) centrally relevant to TORC (I'm not in this group, of course). If that once-shared sense of community can now span b77 and TORC, that is something that is worth our time. The only ways to facilitate this process that spring to mind are: (1) those who feel comfortable posting in both locations might start or continue to do so; (2) those who have (former) friends, or even acquaintances, on TORC who are not here might reach out to them, and endeavor to clear up any misunderstandings, address any hurts, etc. that might have developed. However, as I suspect that much of this is already being done to the extent possible, I'm not sure that I have too much that is useful to add.

- TP

grammar edit: the grammar's still bad, but it was worse before, promise

Last edited by tolkienpurist on Fri 08 Jul , 2005 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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