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ATTENTION PLEASE! New Process for activating new members!

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truehobbit
Post subject: ATTENTION PLEASE! New Process for activating new members!
Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 7:35 pm
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A problem with not admitting under-13-year-olds has been realised!

By law, we cannot admit people under 13 without parental consent.

Our front page asks new registrants to say whether they are over or under 13, but even if they say they are under 13, they just show up as new registrants.
There is no way for the Rangers to see whether the new member has clicked on "under 13" and should hence not be activated!

To avoid activating registrants who are under 13, the following new procedure has been proposed:

When a new member registers, go to the yahoo account and send them a copy of the e-mail Jny has composed for the purpose.

If they reply, they by that confirm that they are over 13, and can then be activated.

There will be a thread in Sensitive Info, giving the text of the e-mail (for convenience - it's also posted with all the other form letters in Michel Delving, of course), and a collection of the e-mails from which to wait for an answer.

This ia a complicated way, but so far no other solution has been found.

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laureanna
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 7:45 pm
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Sorry, I didn't see this post go up until after I registered Borovas and None_elf_ear. Has anyone sent them a letter already? Where would that info be?

EDIT: found it. I mailed NEE the letter.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 15 Jul , 2005 9:32 pm
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Thanks :) - I'm pretty sure NEE is older than 13 - and I didn't know that Borovas was Iavas's brother! :drool: ;)

I hadn't started the thread in sensitive info yet, because the letter wasn't yet in the form letter thread, so I wasn't sure if the one in the Ranger communication thread was already the final version - I see it's in form letters now. :)

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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 12:09 am
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Borovas is cool...he's 25 I believe.

I didn't see this until I activated Aramel. IIRC he's over 13 but I can't say for sure. If anyone could send out an email, I'd appreciate it as I'm short on time.

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tinwe
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 1:35 am
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There has been some discussion going on in the Mayor’s forum about the underage registrants. I will copy the pertinent posts here so everyone can look this over and see what they think.
truehobbit wrote:
Anyway, I've been thinking about this and looking around on the experiment board.
How's this for a radical solution:

On this board, we have activation set to "admin", that is the admins have to flick the switch that activates a user.

On the experiment board it's set to "user", that is the user can activate themselves.
If you register as under 13 you get abovementioned mail - and you can't register yourself, the admins have to do it for you!

So I was thinking - if we set the activation to "user" on this board, we'd notice that someone has clicked "under 13" by the fact that they don't get activated.

We'd still have to add each new user to the usergroups, otherwise they can't post at all. And we'd not be getting any e-mails about this, so we'd have to keep track of the latest registration at the bottom of the front page.

LOL, not very helpful, come to think of it, but now that I spent so much time thinking it up, I'll leave it for consideration. ;) :)
truehobbit wrote:
... in light of this complicated solution, the way I suggested earlier doesn't sound all that bad anymore.

If we set activation to member, then all we have to do is to wait with adding someone to a group (and thus enabling them to post) until their status goes to active.

It takes watching the user list, but that's easier than watching the mail-box, I think.

(We might just have to explain why it might be a while from self-activation to poster-status.)

tinwe_linto wrote:
I really like Hobby’s idea the best, and with a few minor adjustments it can be made to work very well for us, without having to send out any emails at all.

Here’s what we would have to do. In the Admin panel under General Admin - Configuration there are two data fields for providing information about COPPA settings - one for the fax number and another for a mailing address. I think the fax number limits the number characters that can be entered, but the mailing address field does not. We simply put in the mailing address field a message that says “We are sorry, but we do not accept members who are under the age of 13". Done. The person cannot activate themselves, they have been told they can’t be members, we have fulfilled our obligation. (I tried this on the experimental board, btw. It works.)

Another benefit of this system is that someone registering with an invalid email is automatically kept out since they will not get the activation email even if they are over 13.

The only drawback is that the Rangers would not receive notification emails about new registrants. We would have to check the memberlist on a regular basis to make sure everyone’s permissions have been set, otherwise new members can activate themselves, but the still can’t post. (We can turn permissions on for everyone, even if they are under 13, since those people will never get the self-activation email anyway. We don’t even need to check to see if people are activated anymore - they either will be if over 13, or not if under 13. So it actually saves a step instead of adding one :)) I don’t see this as too much of problem, as long as the Rangers are diligent about it. If we continue to list new members in the “List New Registrations Here” thread in Forum Management we will be able to quickly see who’s been turned on and who hasn’t. If we miss someone, they will still have the b77 email address they can respond to to request posting permissions.

One question. I was under the impression that, under the current system, new registrants were sent an automated notification email as soon as the Rangers activated them. I tested this out on the experimental board by changing the settings to admin activation and registering a new user name (over 13). (My apologies to all of the admins on that board who received a notification email :oops: ). I then went back in as admin and activated the account, but I never received the email. Is that something that has been set up somewhere, or are we sure it is really being sent out?

ETA - Please ignore that last question. I finally received the email.
Jnyusa wrote:
Tinwe - that sounds like a good idea to me.

How are we going to get all the admins on the same page to implement this though?

Eru activated someone else before she realized, and doesn't have time to send the age confirmation letter. That's posted in Forum Mgt. and I'm up here talking about it .... can't send the letter myself, can only hope that the admins are reading up here, too.

I don't want this thread to become an impediment to communication and I think that in this case it did have that effect.

So anyway, if we need to change the permissions set-up, the Rangers need to get on that right away in some organized fashion. And until that's completed, we have to stop activating people until after they've given us age confirmation.

Jn
tinwe_linto wrote:
Jny,

I’ll go post something in Forum Management about this. We do need to get everyone on the same page. I just want to make sure I’m not missing something obvious about this before I do it.

I’ve been playing around with some more things. It seems that whenever an automated email is sent out (regardless of the activation setting) there is a customizable signature that gets added at the end. Ours currently says “Thanks, the B77 Management”. We could change this to add a message about Rangers needing to set permissions before someone could post. It could say
Quote:
Please note that you still may not be able to post after clicking on the above link. The administrators will need to turn on your permissions first. Your patience is appreciated.

Thanks, the B77 Management
This would clear up any confusion about not being able to post right away.

ETA. I tried putting the message into the signature on the experimental forum. Here is what the activation email says:

Quote:
Welcome to b77experiment Forums

Please keep this email for your records. Your account information is as follows:

----------------------------
Username: test2
Password: *
----------------------------

Your account is currently inactive. You cannot use it until you visit the following link:

http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/profile.ph ... 2&act_key=*******

Please do not forget your password as it has been encrypted in our database and we cannot retrieve it for you. However, should you forget your password you can request a new one which will be activated in the same way as this account.

Thank you for registering.

--
Please note that you still may not be able to post after clicking on the above link. The administrators will need to turn on your permissions first. Your patience is appreciated.

Thanks, the Management
So, that works too.
So, does anyone see anything wrong with this. I'm sure I'm missing something, I just don't know what.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 1:56 am
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tinwe, that's brilliant! :D

Using the space for the address to insert the necessary info! Genius! :cheers

I don't rightly understand about changing permissions right now, though (but it's way past my bedtime anyway) - the permissions are turned on by adding people to the all members group - which is what we'll do when we see their status has turned to active. And your addition gives good warning that this might not happen immediately.

One possible drawback, though: I had thought of entering some text in the box for the management greeting, too, but had discarded it, because I thought that this means the text will be added to all official b77 mails. Not sure if that might be a problem or not - it does seem too good to let it go. :)

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tinwe
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 2:13 am
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Hobby,

We don’t need to wait until someone is activated to turn on their permissions, we just turn them all on. If they are over 13 they can activate themselves and post away. If they are under 13 they don’t get the activation email so they can’t post even if their permissions are turned on.

I didn’t think about the signature being used for all emails. Perhaps we could preface the message by saying
Quote:
Notice to new registrants - you may not be able to immediately post after activating your account. Your permissions must be turned on by the administrators. Your patience is appreciated.

Thanks, the b77 Management
That way, even if it goes out with all emails, it still makes sense.

ETA - I just finished sending the email to Amarel (since Eru couldn’t do it). It was a huge pain in the butt. I sincerely hope to never have to do that again!


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 2:22 am
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Yes, the new text looks great! :)

But the reason we had switched all permissions off was so that we could manage everything through usergroups!

If someone needs to be restricted to the bike racks, you don't have to switch permissions, you just take them out of "all members".

But assuming that by turning permissions on you mean adding to groups: I know what you mean now - I'd just been thinking that it's not nice to send someone a "you have been added to all members" mail (which gets sent automatically) when they can't post in the end anyway!
That's why I'd think it's nicer to wait till they have proved they can be members by activating themselves.

Besides, your text lets them know they might have to wait, so that's ok, I think.

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tinwe
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 2:30 am
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I wasn’t aware that adding someone to the groups automatically sent them an email.

I do seem to remember that happening, now that you mention it. That does complicate things, assuming we want to be nice about it ;). We would have to keep checking the management settings in the admin panel over and over again until they had activated themselves (assuming someone didn’t do it right away). I don’t like that, but it’s still better than sending the emails manually.


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laureanna
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 3:13 am
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It's not that hard to check up on them.

Admin panel
User Admin > User List > last page
check "active" column for any stray "no"s

Would this be a good time to resurrect my one-day-a-week assignment idea? Perhaps we could have the Ranger of the Day assignment. For example, I could be Ranger of the Day for Fridays (my local day time Fridays). My duties would include checking the b77_ad mailbox and the board77 mailbox at least once every friday, and checking the boards several times during the day, and noting any new members, and adding them to groups as soon as they activate themselves, if they can. If they can't, I'd put an alert in the keeping in touch thread for the next Ranger of the Day. We don't have to have a Ranger for every single day (or if you think we do, a more active ranger could take two days of the week). That way, we don't have 4 or 5 people stumbling over each other trying to be the first to do a limited number of assignments. We could have a thread with the day(s) assigned for each Ranger, and the list of things the Ranger of the Day should do. The rest of us can still cruise the threads and keep the ship running smoothly (a remarkably easy task, so far).

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 9:48 am
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Tinwe invited me in :) so here is my take:

Member activation is a good solution here I think too and changing the signature text to read
Quote:
Notice to new registrants - you may not be able to immediately post after activating your account. Your permissions must be turned on by the administrators. Your patience is appreciated…Thanks, the b77 Management
Ammending the COPPA mailing field to read
Quote:
“We are sorry, but we do not accept members who are under the age of 13"
is brilliant :D They might just go ahead and register again as over 13, but that's not really our problem then, is it? ;) .. apart from weeding out non-double RP identities.

Since the Rangers won't be getting email notifications about new registrants, yes you'll have to keep an eye glued to the memberlist at all times.
Perhaps it would make sense to run a new thread (or rather - redesign /ammend the current 'list all registrants' thread in Management with the Administrator ID as an easy quick-reference, adding name/date of the registrant plus name of Ranger who added it to the list, which means they've checked it and also added it to the all members group (if all is clear).

Making a new thread with the Administrator ID that is continually amended by the Rangers I think would be the easiest way to avoid possible hiccups. When you as a Ranger have time to work on this, check the thread first as who's last up on the list, then take the memberlist and check for new registrants, copy those names into the list. Go and check their settings (self-activated or not) and if so, add them to all members group. Then go back to the log thread and enter what you've done. Simple really – and it would avoid the problem of two Rangers doing the same checks unnecessarily. :)

Laureanna: the once a week assignment thingie is a good idea but I think it will only work for very view people; at least that's what I've experienced in the past. Many people's schedule is quite fluid and so to determine fixed 'times of duty' does not really work. And frankly, it does not really matter, so long as the Rangers communicate with each another and have 'log-type' of threads they diligently keep updated. You already have a couple, surely adding one won't make much of a difference ;)

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 5:48 pm
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laureanna, with respect to the mailbox, especially when we were still talking about the b77.com mailbox, which is a bit of pain checking, as you have to go to a different site, log in etc - the idea isn't bad - it's a fact that the mailbox didn't get checked daily, so that was a good way out.
But I must admit I have trouble keeping my "day" - I signed up for Wednesday at the time, but Wednesdays usually come and go without me being very aware of it - and then on Fridays I realise that I haven't looked at the mailbox all week or so.

Also, if something seems to come up, I go and look, rather than thinking: oh, it's someone else's turn to look today.

With respect to all duties, I think that wouldn't work. I'm sure I couldn't remember several days on which it would be "my turn". And I couldn't say on which days I'm here a lot and on which I'll only check in for brief peeks. And when I'm here, and have the time, I prefer to do anything that comes up - I'd get itchy being here but unable to do something because it's someone else's day.
There's no problem here with jobs not getting done, like it was with checking the mailbox, so I don't think we need to assign the duties specifically.

I don't even think we need a thread to keep a list like Alandriel says.
When someone new registers, it's usually faster for me to go to the admin panel to see if they have already been activated, rather than to the "list of registrants" first and then probably to the admin panel after that.
So, on seeing a new name, I'd open the admin panel, see if they are active, and if not, check again later.
I don't think that's a problem
I think most people would activate themselves directly - I usually look for the mail right away and activate myself when I register somewhere - so by the time we see a new name in "newest member" I'm sure they'll have activated themselves and we can go ahead.
And if someone fails to activate themselves for a long time, maybe then they have lost interest between registering and getting the activation mail. ;)

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tinwe
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 9:03 pm
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So, are we going to do this? I ask because I see that we have another registrant, GoodSam, who was a well known poster on TORC. I am 99.9999999% certain that he is over 13 and don’t think it’s fair to keep him out after we have let everyone else in. I’d like to go ahead and activate him, but I’ll send him the age verification email first, since that is the policy we have in place right now. If, however, there are no objections, I would like to go ahead and make the changes to the registration process.

Are their any objections?

I think we can work out the fine points later, since this will be a fairly automated process. All that’s left to figure out is how to keep track of who’s been added to the groups, right?

As for laureanna’s idea, I do think it makes since to have some sort of procedure in place to make sure the emails and activations get looked at, although I agree with Alandriel and Hobby that the daily assignment may not be practical. I’m open to whatever we all agree on though.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 9:38 pm
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I'm fine with making the changes, but I think we need at least a majority of admins to agree before we make such a big change to the way the board is set up. (Not noticeably big, of course, but still big in being a rather basic thing, I think.)

Thanks for sending the mail to GoodSam! :)
Quote:
All that’s left to figure out is how to keep track of who’s been added to the groups, right?
I think when someone has added a new member to groups, thereby in fact activating their posting rights, they should just enter the name in the list, just like we used to do before.

A Ranger who sees someone new then could either check the list thread or go the userlist (which seems easier to me) - if the activation is on "yes", just click on open/close to see if the person is already a member of the usergroups. If so, someone else already did the job, if not, you add them.

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tinwe
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Posted: Sat 16 Jul , 2005 10:44 pm
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truehobbit wrote:
I'm fine with making the changes, but I think we need at least a majority of admins to agree before we make such a big change to the way the board is set up. (Not noticeably big, of course, but still big in being a rather basic thing, I think.)
:)

OK, so what do we need to do? It seems as though you, laureanna and I are in agreement about the change. Alatar’s gone until the 23rd (I checked the Touching Base thread here), Areanor’s been gone for a few days (she still hasn’t opened the PM I sent her last night). That leaves Eru. Hey Eru! Get in here!

Anyway, I don’t know how these official decisions work, but I do think the sooner we do this the better. We have not received reply emails from any of the three people we sent age verification form letters to, although GoodSam is the only one who has not been activated, which I personally think is rather unfair to him.

Also, I agree about the activation and recording keeping process. It shouldn’t be that difficult, so I see no reason why it won’t work.


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Eruname
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 6:35 am
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Was engrossed in Harry Potter. I saw my name mentioned in a quick skim. It's 1:45am for me which is a bit late, so I'll have to read this tomorrow. I'm afraid my brain can't process this right now after so many hours of reading! :blackeye

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Areanor
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 10:43 pm
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Am back. Checked this thread first thing after checking if the new members are activated. And for me, too, checking the latest registrant is the very first thing I do, even before I log on. If there is a new name, I open the userlist, sorted by registering date and then the "New registrants"-thread to compare them, starting with the name I know that was shown as newly registered when I've been here last.
:D
Another thing: BEFORE I start doing something with the new member, e.g. sending the Age E-mail or activating him/her, I add the name to the "New Registrants"-list. I once did that and went to activate them, then found out they were already activated and not by me ! I think that would save us some work when two or more admins are here on the same time.


Have to think this here through, because I don't quite understand the logic of the process. :scratch
Tinwe wrote:
We don’t need to wait until someone is activated to turn on their permissions, we just turn them all on. If they are over 13 they can activate themselves and post away. If they are under 13 they don’t get the activation email so they can’t post even if their permissions are turned on.
Why wouldn't under 13 years-old get no activation e-mail? (okay, think I've got that - because we don't activate them until they confirm their age ) But if they can post right away as soon as they get the activation e-mail, because their permissione are turned on beforehand why do we need to add this:
Quote:
Please note that you still may not be able to post after clicking on the above link. The administrators will need to turn on your permissions first. Your patience is appreciated.
??????

As I said, I have to think this through.

Oh, and to add:
Every time I'm here, I check the mail account anyway.
Why don’t we just add the texts of the form mails to “Drafts”? If you want to send one, just open the draft, add the mail addy and send. The text stays in “Draft” and the mail is sent. I did that with the welcoming email I sent out last week and it worked fine. Saves a lot of copy and paste.

Grrr :rage: wrote this and just as I wanted to hit "Submit", my server kicked me out. Am glad that I copy before I post. ;)

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laureanna
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 11:09 pm
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I'm more confused than ever now.

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Areanor
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 11:13 pm
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Laureanna, sorry, that wasn't my intention :hug:. I'm about to run to the experimental board to check some things out, maybe my mind gets clearer then.....
tinwe_linto wrote:

I didn’t think about the signature being used for all emails. Perhaps we could preface the message by saying
Quote:
Notice to new registrants - you may not be able to immediately post after activating your account. Your permissions must be turned on by the administrators. Your patience is appreciated.

Thanks, the b77 Management
That way, even if it goes out with all emails, it still makes sense.
Ummmm.... I thought the signature is only added, when you click on "use my signature"?

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tinwe
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Posted: Sun 17 Jul , 2005 11:17 pm
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Areanor,

I'm typing up a response. it will take me a minute, but I think I can answer your questions :)


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