board77

Hmm - I thought I sent you a PM this morning but I can't find it in my outbox or sentbox. Should I send it again?

I didn't recieve it Jude.

Some good news I found while browsing the phpbber support forum:

admin wrote:

we have to charge $25, because we will have to convert all your customized tables to the default phpbb tables manually and it will take few hours

If they convert our backup into the default phpbb tables, that's one less hurdle we need to jump when we set up our own messageboard.

This is also one point in favour of creating a phpbb message board, but I'd still be interested to hear Dave's opinions of the pros and cons of phpbb versus vBulletin.

phpBB version 2 has been completely re-written since the first version. Version 2 focuses on a professional-quality modular design, high security, multiple-language interface, support for a multitude of databases servers and complete layout customisation, all with a low execution overhead.

phpBB is based on PHP, the fastest growing server-side scripting language on the web, which results in one of the fastest, feature-rich bulletin board systems available anywhere.

In addition, phpBB is open-source software so it has no fees, no subscriptions, and no restrictions on modifications. Couple this with a thriving and friendly phpBB community and you have a killer solution for creating communities on your site!
Goto topInstallation

* Simple installation that will have you up and running in minutes
* Complete upgrade from V1.x


Support

* phpBB uses a database abstraction layer to enable seamless support of several database servers:

o MySQL 3.2x,
o PostgreSQL 7.x,
o Microsoft SQL Server 7/2000
o Microsoft Access (via ODBC)
o ...with more databases available in the future.


Security

* Designed with security as a priority
* Powerful and extensive authorisation system
* Strong encryption to keep passwords safe in the database
* Support for both cookie and URI-based sessions


Unlimited Forums & Categories

* Unlimited forums can be organised into as many categories as you like
* Private forums and those only for specified user groups
* Powerful search facility


Posting Messages

* Message formatting with various font styles and sizes as well as allowing quoting, code display, image posting and automatic URL linking
* Support of standard and extended BBCode tags and controlled HTML tags
* Polls can be simply added to posts
* Email notification of replies to your topics
* Powerful topic subscription capability
* Original emoticons to portray emotions


Versatile User Groups & Forum Permissions

* Powerful forum, user and group permission management
* Control forum access to specified user groups
* Control all aspects of the posting experience
* Allow limited access to viewing, posting, replying and many other options


Member Features

* Unlimited members
* Personal profile creation
* Post counting and administrator-definable ranks for users
* Email-like private messaging system
* Supports local, remote and uploadable avatars


Moderation Features

* Topic editing
* Mass delete/move/lock/unlock of posts
* Topic splitting
* Option of auto-pruning of old or unanswered messages on a per-forum basis


Easy to Use Administration Centre

* General configuration
* Forum & category setup
* Easy database backup and restore
* Disallowed usernames
* User authorisation
* Word censoring
* Complete member management
* Emoticon setup
* Optional new post verification
* Extensive ban management, ban by email address, username or single/multiple IP address or hostname
* IP tracking of posts and posters
* Mass emailing of groups and users by the administrator


Style and Customisation

* Multiple styles available for the user to choose from
* Templates separated from the PHP code so that new layouts can easily be created or integrated with your current site design
* Complete control of fonts and colours with cascading style sheets (CSS)
* Active community creating addons and specialised modifications
* Default style compliant with XHTML 1.0 and HTML 4.01 recommendations from the W3C


Support

* All this is supported by an increasingly large, thriving and friendly community of members from all over the world ready to help with any problems, suggestions or just for general discussion!









vBulletin Features
vBulletin is a powerful community solution that makes it easy to add a forum messaging system to your web site. vBulletin is developed using PHP and MySQL (a highly efficient open-source database). This solid back end technology allowed us to develop a product that is both amazingly fast, yet reassuringly stable.

Features
General Features

* Scalable solution - database server and web servers can reside on separate machines.
* MySQL back-end database
* vBulletin can be run on any machine that can support PHP and MySQL (Solaris, BSD, Linux, Windows, Mac)
* Written in PHP which makes for a fast and efficient product
* Admin Control Panel
* Moderator Control Panel
* User Control Panel
* Compliant with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) of 1998. See this page for more information: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/coppa.htm

General Forum Features

Threads

* Thread display options - sort by, sort order, from date
* Thread and forum subscription (notification by email optional)
* Thread preview on mouse-over (optional, via Admin CP)
* Active Users viewing thread shown
* New Post Indicator
* Printer Friendly versions on threads
* Admin tools for Threads - edit/delete/move/lock/Make sticky/ etc
* Email page to a friend option
* Similar Threads displayed on all thread views

Posts

* Linear, Threaded, Hybrid display views available
* Supports BB Code in posts
* Supports HTML in post
* Smilies
* Avatars
* Optional WYSIWYG or standard editors for posts and Private Messages
* Attachment images (.gif,.jpg, etc) are no longer in the database (optional, via Admin CP)
* Quick reply box (with optional "forced" click on post to quote)
* Preview post option
* Post rating
* User reputation
* Polls
* Post Reporting - report posts to moderators
* User post count
* Admin tools for Posts - edit/delete/move/ etc
* Preview safe attachments

Members

* Member List
* Member Search
* User Style picker
* Private Messaging
* Buddy list
* Member Birthdays shown on Forum home

Calendar Features

* Supports multiple private and public calendars
* Viewable public and private events (adminCP option)
* Weekly, monthly and yearly views
* Jump to Today option
* Add single, ranged or recurring events
* Add all day events
* Option to show calendar event on forum home page (adminCP option)
* Show events to specific usergroups (adminCP option)
* Calendar Moderation
* Private events reminder
* Ability to add custom fields

General

* Who's online
* Search

User Control Panel Features

Editable user profile

This information can be viewed by other members from the member list. Custom user title, URL home page, date of birth, instant messaging medium, location, occupation, biography, interests, vB version, plus any other custom user fields that may be defined by the administrator

Profile pictures

Allows members to upload pictures that can be viewed in the users' profile.

Private Messaging

* Pop-up notification when new PM recieved
* Private Message Tracking
* Private Message filing in custom folders

User Options

These include Daylight Savings options, forum style chooser, selection of notification types for PM, emails etc, thread display options, WYSIWYG editor options, language chooser, vCard downloads to allow the user profile to be placed into an address book

Attachment Management

* View attachment statistics - shows limit and used space
* View the attachments you have posted (link or thumbnail views available)
* Remove attachments

Avatar Options

* Admin Defined Avatars
* Custom Avatars - upload from your own computer or specify a URL

General

* View and manage subscribed threads and forums
* Calendar event reminders for subscribed events
* Pop-up auto-refreshing buddylist with ICQ-style alerts when new buddies come online
* Signature Editor
* Email and password changes require current password
* Joinable Public User Groups

Admin Control Panel Features

Styling & Templates

* Templated system
* Conditionals supported in the templates
* Ability to create multiple styles which can be applied to different forums and users
* Ability to upload / download styles and languages

Language & Phrase Management

* Language manager - allows you to easily translate you forums in any language
* Multiple languages supported
* Phrase manager

Users & Usergroups

* User registration options
* User banning (by name & IP)
* Global ignore user aka 'Tachy goes to Coventry' - when enabled all posts by the specified user will be ignored/unseen by other members. Automatically added to the all users ingnore lists
* Unlimited Moderators and SuperModerators
* Permission system, based on user, usergroup or forums

Board Maintenance

* Task Scheduler
* Control Panel, Moderator & Task logs
* Board statistics
* Maintentance - Database backups, table repair
* Post Prunning

Moderation

* Moderation queues for user registration and posting
* Calendar moderation

Import Facility

* Import facility - import posts and members seamlessly upgrade from other bulletin board systems, including Infopop's Ultimate Bulletin Board, UBBThreads, OpenTopic, ezboard, and Ikonboard

Attachments

* Multiple attachments and types (types defeined by admin in CP)
* Attachment thumbnails (requires PHP to have GD enabled)
* Storage type options for attachements (database or file system)
* Attachment moderation

General

* Multiple calendars supported
* Paid Subscriptions (PayPal, WorldPay, NOCHEX and Authorize.net)
* Private forums
* COPPA compliant
* Server Settings and Optimisation options configurable via the adminCP
* Editable FAQ for your own boards
* Context sensitive help throughout the adminCP




The above lists all the features of both vBulletin & phpBB

Basically one is FREE the other you pay for and like most things in life sometimes you get what you pay for!

I am not knocking phpBB it is great software and the people behind it are excellent folks.

With either board your site will run fine, both can be up & running from a standard phpBB backup.

The thing is that if you have any problems, install any mods or update to the latest version due to security issues then
with phpBB the support is given freely and whilst it is good it is not always correct and sometimes can be slow, i know i have been on the pc updating a modded phpBB site at 2am in the morning only to be given a load of php or mysql errors! But that said if you have some members of tecchie expierence then it shouldnt be a problem, but the bigger your site gets, the more mods added etc etc the worse things generally get!

With vBulletin you PAY for the software currently £82 ($160US) for an Owned license

Quote:

vBulletin (Owned License)
The owned vBulletin Forum license allows you to run the software on your site indefinitely. Along with this license, you will receive one year of free updates. Beyond the first year, you will have to pay a
nominal fee, currently $30, to obtain updates for an additional year.

This license includes free email and forum support.

vB will install your forum for you at a cost (although this is fairly starightforward)

They will also convert a phpBB backup to a vB backup for transferring from phpBB to their vB Board.

The vB board is better IMO than the phpBB v2.0x board as there are many extras on it as standard.

vB Support is a member only area and operates 24/7 365 days a year.

But phpBB are bringing out a new version 2.2x which is nearly up to vB standards with all the frills and whistles, only thing is this version has been coming out for 2 years now and i gave up waiting for it!

I had a site running phpBB2.0x which i added some mods to for members to upload pictures and then i upgraded the site to the next stable version, this went on for a few years and in the end i started looking back and wished i had just paid for vB at the time, this was down to at times bad support or no support and things missing that as my board developed i wished i had, these can be added with mods, but this in itself is not always easy, sometimes its like trying to run uphill with lead boots on whilts its snowing!

vb can be found here www.vBulletin.com

The User Manual is here http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/

Some sample forums running vB are here

http://www.atforumz.com/

http://www.disboards.com/ (lots of members and a large board)

dave,

Thanks.

I have no problem with the phpBB software, but the fact that no one in the organization seems to understand backups, for either everyday use or on request, pushes me over the edge. I know that this is a non-issue for database level backups once we have moved to a responsible host. I still wonder if phpBB is capable of creating its own backups. The circumstantial evidence says it is capable, but here we are after what, two months.

I like that there seems to be real support for Vbulletin, including the transition support. Although it isn't free, it is close enough that it shouldn't be an issue. There are BB packages that have a lot of 0s behind their price.

With either choice, we need database software. Since MySQL is now fairly mature, extensively used, and inexpensive to have and support, it seems like a decent choice. How many of us have MySQL experience?

I don't want to panic anyone, but we are venturing into a world that costs money. Fortunately not much, but no one has discussed budget or funding.

The cost categories are:

Hosting
BB software
Database
Operation (mostly covered under Hosting)
Transition

It is tempting to say that the technical among us could provide some services at no cost, but that creates security risks and scheduling problems. As long as the costs are minimal, it seems best to leave as much as possible in the hands of those with no vested interest in the content. We should focus on managing the, acquisition, providers, transition, and operation.

IdylleSeethes wrote:

I still wonder if phpBB is capable of creating its own backups.

Both phpBB and vB are capabile of creating backups but this is not the best way and not automatic.

The best way is through phpMyAdmin (from memory) or your hosts control panel.

If your host is Linux/Unix then it may be able to run CRON jobs, if this is the case then automatic backups can be done weekly/ hourly etc

These can then be uploaded from a say pasword protected webpage on your site probably ftp://............

This again brings up a money issue ! The backups take up HDD space and as you site grows this will become larger and larger, wherever you host your forum must have enough HDD space allocated to you for both your forum board and the backup.As most providers give different levels each with different bandwidths and hdd space etc etc. Each costing different amounts.

For example, i just did a google on web hosts and found one that gives hosting for a year for £25 that includes


40 MB Disk Space
1,000 MB Data Transfer Per Month
Feature Packed Control Panel (cPanel)
10 POP3 Mailboxes
5 Email Autoresponders
Email Aliases
Email Forwarding
“Catch All” Email Account
Email Blocking and Filtering
Web Based Email Packages
PHP/Perl/Python/SSI/C/C++/CGI
FrontPage Extensions (if required)
Anti SPAM Protection
Anti Virus Protection
FTP Access
Online File Manager
Website Statistics Packages
Raw Log Files
Page Redirects
Cron Job Support
Custom Error Pages
HTTP Streaming/Multimedia/Flash
Password Protected Directories
Daily Backups
Hotlink Protection
IMAP Support
Many Auto Installing Scripts
Chatroom
Error Logs
Search Engine Submission Tool
Free Parking of Extra Domains
Fast and Secure Servers
Regular Software Updates
Superb Availability
24/7 Full Support
Your Own Domain Name
Attractive Referral Scheme
Free Setup
Fast Account Activation
Lots More Features....


40MB of HDD space isnt worth considering

They also provide a £75 per year service that includes the following

500 MB Disk Space
5,000 MB Data Transfer Per Month
Feature Packed Control Panel (cPanel)
50 POP3 Mailboxes
5 MySQL Databases
5 Subdomains
50 Email Autoresponders
Email Aliases
Email Forwarding
“Catch All” Email Account
Email Blocking and Filtering
Web Based Email Packages
PHP/MySQL/Perl/Python/SSI/C/C++/CGI
FrontPage Extensions (if required)
Anti SPAM Protection
Anti Virus Protection
FTP Access
Online File Manager
Website Statistics Packages
Raw Log Files
Page Redirects
Cron Job Support
Custom Error Pages
HTTP Streaming/Multimedia/Flash
Password Protected Directories
Daily Backups
phpMyAdmin
Hotlink Protection
IMAP Support
Many Auto Installing Scripts
Bulletin Boards
Shopping Carts
Content Management System
Chatroom
Error Logs
Search Engine Submission Tool
Free Parking of Extra Domains
Fast and Secure Servers
Regular Software Updates
Superb Availability
24/7 Full Support
Your Own Domain Name
Attractive Referral Scheme
Free Setup
Fast Account Activation
Lots More Features....


500mB is a lot better, but again this is dependant on how big your site is and how big it grows !??!?!!

They list DAILY BACKUPS

This is much like phpbber and is for them incase they have a failure and need to restore yours and other sites, so dont get confused!

The existing host has cron support. What I do on my other sites is write a simple backup script which does a MySQL backup then FTPs it to my home PC. I do a rolling backup. Currently I keep 4 weekly backups, just in case, but I really don't see any need for more than that. I call the backup script from a cron job.

Let's not make this more difficult than it needs to be.

Keep It Simple Stupid!

We can easily pick a few people willing to store backups. There's no need to look at commercial considerations apart from hosting. We have perfectly good free software in PHPBB and perfectly good technical expertise on the board.

Where's the problem?

Alatar

Stupid Question from a non-geek:

When you do a backup a couple times a week, is it necessary to save the prior backups? When would one have occasion to use something other than the most recent backup?

Jn

Jny, when the most recent backup is itself messed up.

Said Frelga, who has lost 3 months worth of data at one point because the files that everybody assumed were being backed up were NOT.

There are no stupid questions.

Frelga's answer is spot-on.

Alatar wrote:

Keep It Simple Stupid!

Who is stupid ? (Dont understand)

Jnyusa wrote:

Stupid Question from a non-geek:

When you do a backup a couple times a week, is it necessary to save the prior backups? When would one have occasion to use something other than the most recent backup?

back to being stupid........

Questions are not Stupid

I think "Keep It Simple Stupid," aka K.I.S.S., was being used in its sense as an adage, not as a form of name calling.

Thanks Ax. Exactly right...

I wasn't trying to insult anyone.

Sorry!

Alatar,

Our problem:

Keystone Cops


This is actually the tail end of a longer discussion, I think. It doesn't inspire confidence. Why would we want to be in their hands? I generally don't entrust anything I consider valuable with someone who has proven themselves to be irresponsible, repeatedly.

What am I missing?


Does anyone know if incrementals are possible?


Jnyusa,

There is sometimes the need to prove when something happened. Many backup arrangements span several years in dauiy, weekly, monthly, and annual cycles.

Incremental/deltas are Very Nice if available.

IS,

I see where you're coming from now. The difference is that we're discussing backups on the new domain, which will not be under the control of PHPBBer. We'll be doing those backups ourselves, so we will not be dependant on anyone.

Alatar

knock.... knock...

It's fab to see all you guys talking a language I absolutely don't understand . I can only nod my head vigorously at KEEP IT SIMPLE..

WE'VE GOT THE PHPBB BACKUP OF BOARD 77
and Alatar is in the process of doing with it what he does to see where all the nuts and bolts are. (I won't even attempt tech language )

Things is ~ now with this in hand, a whole bunch of things really are going to kick into gear --> see also my post in Possible Board down-time. One of them being that I'm now officially asking for a Tech committe to convene.

According to our Charter Art. 11:

Quote:

¶4: Committee for Technical Support
a) The purpose of this committee is to communicate with our web host when necessary and to advise the membership on any technical questions relating to software and hardware capability. Members of the committee should have expertise in internet capability.

b) This committee should have no more than three members and may be convened by a Ranger or by the administrator of record (as designated to our web host) any time a question of a technical nature arises which cannot be readily answered by the membership.

c) The committee may convene in the Jury Room if necessary, but should maintain a thread in the Business Forum for communication with the membership.

Unquestionably Alatar is part of that committe and also Judebut if possible we need one more person to volunteer to actively take part and see this through.

Ideally - or at least the way that I see it atm it would go like this:

The tech committee is convened and they upload the backup, work on customization issues etc. while the board openes a membership wide discussion on wether or not to move - which will come to a membership wide vote. At the same time Voronwe (having volunteered) will begin to look into the legal aspects.

If you tech guru's can manage to have the new board 'open' so that people can have a look at it without interfearing with what you're doing than that would be absolutaly fantastic However, I don't know how realistic that would be.

Once we have a standing Tech Comitte you can then open a thread in the Jury room if you want (but you'd still need to maintain *this* thread also in Business for member input and/or queries).

Can't tell you how excited I am and thanks a lot again for putting your experise at our fingertips. This is so



edit for link hiccups and typo donoughts

oops! I just stumbled upon something while browsing the Jury room and that is the Handbook for committee's : Review thread.

In there it is stated:

Quote:

Committee for Technical Support
Three members with technical expertise. The current committee is Alatar, Jude and Dave.

I wasn't aware that we have 3 confirmed members- sorry.

Dave: can you please confirm that you have volunteered to be on the committe? Thanks

Those are pretty severe limits for hosting. Places like 1AND1.COM provide far more space. These 3 are shared:

Home package

$5/month, 1GB storage, 25GB transfer

Business package

$10/month, 2GB storage, 50GB transfer

Developer Package

$20/month, 4GB storage, 100GB transfer


They support PHP 3 through 5.

A dedicated managed 40GB storage, 1,500GB transfer server is $80/month

I'm not recommending them, they are just an example.

Alandriel wrote:

oops! I just stumbled upon something while browsing the Jury room and that is the Handbook for committee's : Review thread.

In there it is stated:

Quote:

Committee for Technical Support
Three members with technical expertise. The current committee is Alatar, Jude and Dave.

I wasn't aware that we have 3 confirmed members- sorry.

Dave: can you please confirm that you have volunteered to be on the committe? Thanks

OK then.....................

I dont actually remember volunteering to be on the tech committe.....

And whilst i feel a litlle honoured as i have only made a few posts here!

I did at first pm Alandriel to say subject to time i would commit.....

However in retrospect i feel i must decline

I have little time at present (wishing for a 50 hour day!) and this would not be fair on either myself, work, friends, family and you guys!

I will hang around here and give help when and if i can, and certainly help on your new board..

All the Best

Dave