board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web

Advanced search
Unanswered topics | Active topics
Board index » Board Management » Business Room

ToE Junior - An End Run round the problem?

Post Reply   Page 11 of 13  [ 248 posts ]
Jump to page « 1 … 9 10 11 12 13 »
Author Message
tinwe
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 2:30 am
Waiting for winter
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 2380
Joined: Fri 04 Mar , 2005 1:46 am
Location: Jr. High
 
Thanks Fixer.
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 2:33 am
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
Thank you for explaining that, tp. Closed cases with no disclosure hadn't come to my mind.

Though, as a lawyer who deals with having to back up his claim with facts, Voronwe should not get upset at me and claim that I must be suspicious of him when he offers no proof other than "it can happen".* He's stuck between a rock and a hard spot, I realize. But, I reserve the right to be skeptical.

*I'm not speaking about the actual laws he's posted, rather cases and real world examples.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Pippin4242
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:33 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sun 13 Mar , 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Outer Heaven
 
Quote:
But if the ToE admits those 16 and over ... and really, why stop there? Why not admit everyone 13 and over? There are certainly 13 and 14-year olds in our society who are sexually active and could make the same argument that our 16 and 17 year olds have been making - "I'm having sex; why aren't I allowed to talk about it?" But if the ToE did that, I would have to warn my children to stay away. One is a middle school and high school math teacher, her husband is the same only he teaches English and foreign languages. My other daughter is studying now to be a lawyer.
That is absolutely not fair. It's not a question of shifting the goalposts, it is simply this: Sugaplum, Fras, Leafy, Satch, myself and probably others are adults. We can leave home (with parental consent for sixteen year olds, chiz chiz) we can buy cigarettes, we can drink in restaurants, we have to pay full fare for everybloodything and we can have sex. Plenty of people have lost it earlier than that, yes! But we're allowed to! And I am more than happy to get written consent and fax it to Lidless/Voronwe EVEN THOUGH I AM ALLOWED TO DO THIS NORMALLY.

I don't want to look at sleazy pr0n! (much). I want to engage in mature discussion of a sexual nature, and I am perfectly entitled to do that in this country. Even if Brit teens with written parental consent turn out to be the exception to the rule, fine. Do you really think I want to bitch about my hormones and periods in the ML? Do you really think I want to laugh about the gag vibrators I saw in Turf? And do people feel comfortable with my thread discussing reactions to gay sex in the Symposium? No! There's a place for it. FYI, no, I'm not getting any. But the point is, I'm allowed. It is also not a question of waiting another couple of weeks for me (or for Suga, should she wish to join, though I don't wish to put words into her mouth). I will have to wait another bitter and restrained six hundred days before I am allowed in according to your standards. By then I will probably have had time to figure it all out for myself without the help I desire from time to time.

This is not about of lowering standards of this website.

_________________

Avatar is a male me, drawn by a very close friend. Just don't ask why.
Top
Profile Quote
ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:38 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 6921
Joined: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Silly Suffolk
 
Thanks pips.

_________________

[ img ]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos

Norwich Beer Festival 2009
Top
Profile Quote
Axordil
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:43 pm
Not so deep as a well
Offline
 
Posts: 7360
Joined: Tue 11 Jan , 2005 3:02 am
Location: In your wildest dreams
 
Quote:
Do you really think I want to bitch about my hormones and periods in the ML?
Why not?

_________________

Destiny is a rhythm track on which we must improvise.

In some cases, firing the drummer helps.
Top
Profile Quote
Cerin
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 5:52 pm
Thanks to Holby
Offline
 
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat 26 Feb , 2005 4:02 pm
 
Pippin4242 wrote:
This is not about of lowering standards of this website.
Of course not, but there are complicated issues involved because we have an international membership and the site is 'in' (I don't know how to properly phrase that) the US.

Suppose admitting people under the age of 18 to ToE meant that quite a few posters would have to leave b77 because of the peculiarities of US law. Perhaps you would be comfortable with that, but perhaps others wouldn't. That's why we're talking it over and trying to work something out.

When the issue of the wilko revote came up, I was worried about it splitting up the board. That seems to be an even bigger threat this time around, but perhaps ToE is so important to those who post there, that they would rather have ToE open to people under 18 (depending on their country's laws) than have b77 as it is now remain intact?
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:08 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
I guess what makes this all hard from me is that the claims of "I'll have to leave this board because other people in a forum I can't even see may be talking about sex to minors" all just seem like "subjective emotional responses" to quote a friend. Like I've said before, I need to be shown and not just told so that's why it's coming across to me like that.

There is one problem I have with Jn's argument. When the whole wilko thing was going on, didn't you Jn argue that we aren't accountable to non-members or future members (something like that)? That our responsibility was only to the members here? If so, then your daughters or whoever you may want to show this site to have absolutely no bearing on this situation whatsoever. I'm sorry but it did irk me to read that we have to consider the rights or needs of people who haven't registered here yet. If we start down that path, it will never end.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Axordil
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:10 pm
Not so deep as a well
Offline
 
Posts: 7360
Joined: Tue 11 Jan , 2005 3:02 am
Location: In your wildest dreams
 
I would hope that is not the case, Cerin. I think if push came to shove, ToE moving off board would be preferable to losing people from the board as a whole. But it is our job to come up with a way of avoiding that.

_________________

Destiny is a rhythm track on which we must improvise.

In some cases, firing the drummer helps.
Top
Profile Quote
Primula_Baggins
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:16 pm
Living in hope
Offline
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sat 29 Jan , 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
 
Eru, will you not believe people have to leave until they actually do? :scratch: Not believing something can be destroyed until you see it destroyed seems like a wasteful approach. I would rather not lose Jn or anyone from this board just to satisfy your skepticism.

If someone says they will have to leave, then they'll have to leave.

_________________

[ img ]
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:21 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
Even if they left I'm still not convinced it was necessary for them to do so. Just because someone does something, it doesn't make it necessary and required. The person leaving wouldn't satisfy my skepticism either! To me it might seem like an emotional response or perhaps even manipulation...sorry but the leaving/manipulation thing has been used so much in the past, I'm pretty sensitive and wary of it now.

And why exactly does Jn have to leave right now since minors are not being included in ToE?!?!?! Alatar has compiled his list and is getting ready to redo all the permissions.

Sorry, but this is the sort of emotional response my friend was talking about. I know that comment will get a few of you upset at me, but well, I have to say it. I feel like guilt is being used to try to make up my mind.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Primula_Baggins
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:25 pm
Living in hope
Offline
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sat 29 Jan , 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
 
  • I do not want anyone to feel compelled to leave this board.
  • If people say they must leave and do so, then they have left.
  • If people have left, the damage has been done.
  • It is no less a damage because one person doesn't believe it had to happen. It will happen.

_________________

[ img ]
Top
Profile Quote
Pippin4242
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:31 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 3978
Joined: Sun 13 Mar , 2005 7:49 pm
Location: Outer Heaven
 
But it shouldn't, and I still feel like we're being manipulated.

Sorry, but there we have it. I know damn well I wouldn't count a post in TOE a risk to my job if I were in teaching, even if people of all ages could post in there. The simple fact of it is nobody is going to run that sort of a backgound check on you. And if you think they will, then you should probably consider switching your employers.

EDIT: to add the point of the post, being that three months and a hundred posts isn't going to be worth the effort just to prove that TOE isn't kiddie pr0n. Stop taking everything so damn seriously!

Last edited by Pippin4242 on Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

_________________

Avatar is a male me, drawn by a very close friend. Just don't ask why.
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:31 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
Primula_Baggins wrote:
  • I do not want anyone to feel compelled to leave this board.
Neither do I.
Quote:
[*]If people say they must leave and do so, then they have left.
That does not mean that they had to leave.

Again, I am sensitive to people threatening to leave due to its past use.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Cerin
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:41 pm
Thanks to Holby
Offline
 
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat 26 Feb , 2005 4:02 pm
 
Erunáme wrote:
Even if they left I'm still not convinced it was necessary for them to do so. Just because someone does something, it doesn't make it necessary and required.
It doesn't matter if you don't think it was necessary. What's important is what is necessary for each individual.

How would you take to it if I said, 'I'm still not convinced it is necessary for people to talk about sex in a separate forum,' just because I don't happen to feel that need?

Quote:
And why exactly does Jn have to leave right now since minors are not being included in ToE?!?!?! Alatar has compiled his list and is getting ready to redo all the permissions.
I believe she said she would have to leave if it became board policy that people under the age of 18 were allowed in ToE, not that she has to leave now (I apologize if this is incorrect).
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 6:50 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
Sorry Cerin, but I'm not trying to delve into what each person thinks or feels is necessary. I'm trying to figure out if it's actually, factually necessary for someone to leave because of legal reasons or job issues. It's all due to the manipulation thing. In the past people have threatened to leave to get what they want and as I said I'm highly sensitive to this now. I'm not trying to say that's what is being done here. I'm just explaining my reasoning for such a high burden of proof. This threat has been abused in the past (IMO) so I cannot take it lightly.

I just want to make sure that the right thing is done for everyone as best as can be done...Jn, Pips, Leafy, satch, etc.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Cerin
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:04 pm
Thanks to Holby
Offline
 
Posts: 2039
Joined: Sat 26 Feb , 2005 4:02 pm
 
Erunáme wrote:
I'm trying to figure out if it's actually, factually necessary for someone to leave because of legal reasons or job issues.
That isn't something you can determine factually, it has to do with individual lives and values, and what people feel is necessary, and what risks they feel they are able to take. You can't decide that for other people.
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:19 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
But those are the reasons that are being presented....that legally their job could be in trouble.

edit: I'm tired of this....will try very hard not to post about this anymore right now.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Primula_Baggins
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:32 pm
Living in hope
Offline
 
Posts: 7291
Joined: Sat 29 Jan , 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
 
Pips, the question is not whether a person's employer is going to catch him doing something he's agreed not to do.

The question is whether he is going to do something he's agreed not to do.

_________________

[ img ]
Top
Profile Quote
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:43 pm
Offline
 
Posts: 5179
Joined: Thu 10 Feb , 2005 6:53 pm
Contact: Website
 
Eru, you are looking for black and white answers to questions that are in a very grey area. Its just not possible to do.
Quote:
Voronwe should not get upset at me and claim that I must be suspicious of him when he offers no proof other than "it can happen"
For the things that we were discussing (people being fired for internet use that did not involve porn) it was not a question of me saying "it can happen." It is was a question of me saying "I've seen it happen." Two very different things. From my perspective, your suspicion indicates that you don't believe me when I say that I have seen it happen. But I will take you word for it that that is not what you meant and not take it personally. :)
Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject:
Posted: Wed 14 Sep , 2005 7:54 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
Just one more...
Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:
Eru, you are looking for black and white answers to questions that are in a very grey area. Its just not possible to do.
That's the best answer I've gotten. I'm serious. The answer "There is no answer" does in a way satisfy me...not that that solves the situation at hand. ;)

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/
Top
Profile Quote
Display: Sort by: Direction:
Post Reply   Page 11 of 13  [ 248 posts ]
Return to “Business Room” | Jump to page « 1 … 9 10 11 12 13 »
Jump to:
Board index Contact us | Delete cookies | All times are UTC

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited

Privacy | Terms