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The Mooter Thread in Bike Racks

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Cerin
Post subject: The Mooter Thread in Bike Racks
Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 3:52 pm
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This thread was split from the Talk-to-a-Ranger thread by Jnyusa, Wed. 18 Nov 05

Well, I see another group has started a mock thread in Bike Racks.

As I said the last time, I think this is an inappropriate use of the forum, which I think is a valuable potential asset to all b77 members. It was set up as a place where people who had genuine board issues to resolve could go to sincerely attempt to resolve them with the protections that talking in public affords over PM.

As I said the last time, I think using the Bike Racks for mock resolutions has a chance of harming the usefulness of the forum for members who really need to use it, who are feeling upset and vulnerable and want their issues to be treated seriously.

There is no reason the people who went to the moot couldn't start a fun thread in any other appropriate forum. Their free expression or ability to have fun on the board would not be restricted in the least by respecting the intent for that forum and the reasons it was set up as it was.

I think the Charter is clear as to what the Bike Racks should be used for, and I think on that basis the thread should be moved to an appropriate forum and on that basis a Ranger has the authority to PM the participants, explain that to them and move the thread.

I trust no one will take umbrage at me calmly expressing my opinion here.


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Fixer
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 3:55 pm
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Cerin wrote:
I trust no one will take umbrage at me calmly expressing my opinion here.
*Pours a bucket of cold water on Cerin*

Nope. No problem at all.

:D :LMAO: :damnfunny: :love:

(pssstttt.... how's that ability to take a joke coming? I know you have been working on it. Right?)

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Fixer
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:29 pm
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Ok, someone just explained to me that you are probably being serious and that your post wasn't a joke. Whoops. My bad.

On behalf of myself, I would like to ask that whatever Ranger hears your request politely tell you no. The reason is simple:
Quote:
Fellowship: Our interactions on board77 demonstrate that fellowship transcends agreement on specific issues, and actually flourishes because of the different perspectives we bring to a discussion. The founders of the board met through a shared love for the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien, and we remain mindful of the spirit of fellowship exemplified by Tolkien's Middle-earth and the inspiration that world brings to so many who encounter it. We strive to keep this ideal of fellowship alive and available to the community at large with opportunities for old friendships to deepen and for new ones to begin.
People are having fun and no one is being hurt nor are any specific rules being violated. For you to go insisting that things be moved is not very neighborly of you. In fact, it is downright disrespectful of you to indicate that you know so much better than everyone else what the Grand Purpose of Board77 is while the rest of us do not.

Going over the rules of the Bike Racks, the Charter specifies what it is to be used for, but it does not restrict the use of the forum for JUST those three purposes. It does allow for off-topic discussions to be moved there and does not specify those off-topic threads have to be of a quarrelsome nature so the existence of a thread in Bike Racks that does not relate to a quarrel is not unprecedented.

The rules state, "Members may start a thread in that forum to resolve a personal dispute." It does not say, "Members must start a thread in that forum to resolve a personal dispute. " The rules state, "Bike Rack threads should be titled with the name of the expected participants so that the title is neutral and easy for participants to find." The rules do not state, "Bike Rack threads must be titled with the name of the expected participants so that the title is neutral and easy for participants to find."

The bottom line here is that you have this idea in your mind of what Bike Racks is for and it disagrees with that of others. If you wish to change the wording of the Bike Rack rules to be more explicit, go ahead and follow procedure to change the rules and enforce your will upon others, as you seem to wish to do. No one is being disrespected by the existence of a particular thread in Bike Racks unless that individual goes out of their way to be offended. I hope this has not occured to you as it has been a while since I have changed out a colostomy bag and I am fresh out of coal at the moment.

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S_O
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:45 pm
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Well said Fixer.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:48 pm
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Quote:
I hope this has not occured to you as it has been a while since I have changed out a colostomy bag and I am fresh out of coal at the moment.
Fixer, I don't think Cerin deserved that.

She is calmly expressing her opinion, as she has the freedom to do here at b77. You also have that freedom. I would defend either of you, if I felt that freedom were being squelched... even if the opinion was not the majority one, or maybe even especially then.

Personally, I am very glad that opposing viewpoints can be calmly stated, and that we are not all expected to fit some group definition of what b77'ers should look like... or think like. We can all just agree to disagree. We can. It's allowed.

I will resist the idea that if one person or a group of people does NOT fit what others think is appropriate, they are fair game for namecalling.

C'mon, guys. We can do better than this.

:(


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S_O
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:52 pm
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Yeah, I felt that part was uncalled for as well, Anthy. My previous comment had to do with the points of his post that pertained to the BikeRacks. I felt I needed to clarify that. :)

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Tinsel_the_Elf
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:53 pm
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Fixer wrote:
I hope this has not occured to you as it has been a while since I have changed out a colostomy bag and I am fresh out of coal at the moment.
Could you knock off the sarcasm please, Fixer? It's unnecessary, it's provocative, and it's rude.

Look, I don't have a problem with the occassional joke thread in The Bike Racks, in that matter I disagree with Cerin (I think that the last one was offensive mainly because of its bad timing). I agree with you that does not appear that the Charter only limits the Bike Racks to resolution of arguments. Furthermore, I think most of the participants in heavy argument need a little dose of humility and humour.

That being said, there has been a biting undertone to some of the posts in the new thread (not all, but some) that has bordered on nastiness. Is the antagonism really necessary? You obviously don't agree with Cerin, and as I wrote, I don't completely agree with her either. But she's a kind, intelligent, thoughtful person who is an asset to this board and she doesn't deserve the potshots she's been receiving. You can disagree, go about your own business in the Bike Racks (I really hope this was all worth it), and let things play out as they will without stooping to snide remarks and insults.

Sorry if this post sounds snappy and frustrated--but I am at the moment. I understand that quite a few people in the Bike Racks may also feel snappy and frustrated by Cerin's post. In that we're united.

Tin. :(


Edit to say, neither S_O or Anthy had yet posted when I composed the above. Didn't mean to gang up on Fixer. :D

Last edited by Tinsel_the_Elf on Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:54 pm
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That thread was created to bait people.

Everyone who rises to the bait will come in for similar treatment.

Just an observation.

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TheMary
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:55 pm
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I would just like to applaud Fixer for responding with such grace and being so articulate and to the point. :bow: If there was a kiss ass emoticon I'd use it ;)

Cerin: Long time no talk ;) Again it seems there is a dispute concerning the proper way to use the Bikeracks. May I just say that just because the dispute isn't nasty or bitter does not make the Mooters thread inappropriate for the forum.
Quote:
I think this is an inappropriate use of the forum
Here in lies the issue. You think it is an inappropriate use of the forum, this is your right, I'm not even gonna criticize you for it (a joke of course), but TED's thread does not violate the charter.

If lighthearted threads being started in the Bikeracks is going to spawn a complaint from you (or anyone who feels the same way) on rare occassion when these threads are started, may I suggest taking action to have the charter reworded, as this seems to be the only way to satisfy the he said she said debate.

If it bothers you so much, then do more than just ask a ranger to move it because I will request that the ranger not move it, until there is evidence that that charter has been violated. There is no such evidence so either you need to start working on changing that or let it go.

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TheMary
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 4:59 pm
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Quote:
That thread was created to bait people.
Prim pretty please specify which thead you feel is supposed to "bait" people. I sincerely hope you don't feel that the Mooters thread was to piss people off...that would just be sooooo arrogant. Like we have nothing better to do with out time than try to piss certain people off. *is seriously insulted if that's what Prim meant if that's not what you meant smack me with a salmon please!*

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Tinsel_the_Elf
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:08 pm
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"Baiting" and "Pissing People Off" is not necessarily the same thing, Mary, though they often go hand in hand.

I agree with Prim. The thread was baiting (and yes, I'm referring to the Mooting Thread.) Note that I don't say that TED didn't have the right to start it, only that the opening post (and some, but not all of the subseqeunt posts--I want to stress that, I know some people are having an innocent fun time) was designed to mock anyone who might object to the thread, or who had objected to the thread in the past. Given recent events, he was Making A Point. Making A Point is everybody's right--that doesn't mean that you're not also baiting at the same time.

Try not to get seriously insulted, it's not worth it! Just try to see how other people might view that thread, put yourself in Cerin's shoes and read the first post, and some of the others, pretend that you're her--how would you feel?

(Cerin, I'm sorry to keep using your name and you are more than capable of speaking for yourself, but I'm trying to be blunt and not beat around the bush here).

Tin. :)

Last edited by Tinsel_the_Elf on Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:10 pm
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S_O, and I should have remarked on how much I appreciated the rest of Fixer's post. He is articulate and, I believe, has some really good points. It was just that last paragraph that was completely unnecessary, in my point of view. We don't need to make this personal, and we don't need to make it crass. It's just a difference in perception of what the forum is FOR. Nothing more.

Tinsel... I am glad that you posted that without seeing my post! It makes the fact that we are almost word-for-word in our thoughts a little bit :Q . but a lot :D .

Prim, you may be right about the baiting... my take on it was very much that it was started there to make a point. And, yes, to perhaps dare someone to object.

My thoughts on the thread-which-may-be-in-the-wrong-place? (Does anyone care? ;) ) Wellll.... I don't care. You can park an elephant in there, paint it pink and sing Mandy to it for all I care.

:D

The last time was dicey because there was a fairly serious and emotional thread going on at the time, which the joke thread people may not have even taken into consideration when they started their thread. (They may not have even known!)

There may not have been a rule per se about joke thread in that forum, but it seemed disrespectful, perhaps, to some of the people involved in that more serious discussion. That's all. Some other people didn't think that that mattered. I can see both sides, as usual.

I still think we can talk about this without making it personal. We can!!!


:cheerleader:


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Fixer
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:13 pm
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My humor tends to be rude, sarcastic, and possessing teeth when I am agitated. My apologies to those who feel harmed by it but it was either humor or malice at the arrogance I read from Cerin's post once it was explained that it wasn't a joke. I do not contain my anger well in an online medium and tend to express it quite well. At least everyone was reading me with a great degree of clarity.

I can understand people of an anal perspective (of which I am one myself) wanting things to be in what we believe to be 'the proper place' but I do attempt to temper my desire for order with a degree of humility that I do not always know what is best for everyone else. Until I see someone being HARMED by disorder, I tend to not raise alarm as there are those who enjoy thumbing their nose at 'authority'. If they get out of line, ask them to behave. If they are causing a disruption, then you may attempt to force compliance in accordance to clearly stated rules.

Both order and chaos must be accepted with respect and humility if everyone is going to get along. The rules do not need to be pulled out like a club when no harm is being done, nor should people behave in a disruptive fasion when there are serious matters being discussed. There is a time for work and a time for play and as long as the playas get their time and the worker bees get their time then we can all get along.

(Any better? I am less agitated now.)

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Tinsel_the_Elf
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:16 pm
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:LMAO: And I agree with Anthriel! :D The out-of-the-blue visual image of somebody crooning "Mandy" to a Pink Elephant cracks me up!


Edit to say, much better, Fixer. :) And note that I did agree with your general argument in your first post! :)

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TheMary
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:18 pm
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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Tin I'm practically over it, at first I was a bit taken back that Prim thought we angels would bait people... but let's face it at second glance it may seem that way and heck it even might be that way, I know how I view the thread and that's different from how other's view it.


*is still waiting for a salmon in the face*

As for making things personal I just ignored the insinuation in Fixer's post focusing on the real issue, but it's easy for me to do that because I'm no stranger to putting zingers in some of my previous posts.

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Lay down
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Soon you will see
All of your fears will pass away
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You're only sleeping


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Fixer
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:27 pm
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TheMary wrote:
*is still waiting for a salmon in the face*
:salmon: Who's your daddy! :salmon: Who's your daddy! :salmon:

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:29 pm
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TM, I didn't mean that everyone participating in the thread was doing it to bait people. No salmon for you. :hug:

I just mean that's why it's there—given that there are plenty of other places for silly threads, most of which are already full of silly threads.

I don't think it's "anal" to prefer that play takes place in the playroom, not the formal parlor, so that other people can use the house as it was designed to be used.

Nor does it mean I disapprove of play.

Edit: Clarity

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TheMary
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:34 pm
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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Thanks for clarifying Primster :hug:

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Lay down
Your sweet and weary head
Night is falling
You’ve come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
They are calling
From across the distant shore

Why do you weep?
What are these tears upon your face?
Soon you will see
All of your fears will pass away
Safe in my arms
You're only sleeping


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Fixer
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:35 pm
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I was reviewing the actual rules posted IN the forum (to see if there was a possible misunderstanding) and came across the following line:
Administrator wrote:
• If uninvited and unwanted posters interfere, please contact a Ranger by PM or email so that the offending posts can be deleted. You may ask unwanted posters to leave politely, but please do not widen the conflict by arguing with poachers.
When did illegal hunting get involved with Bike Racks? :P

At this point the current active thread in Bike Racks is nothing more than an off-topic post because it has completely changed from its original topic.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Wed 16 Nov , 2005 5:38 pm
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I just want to say thank you to Fixer for coming back in with such a temperate post. :hug:

It did not escape my notice that I was "personally" scolding Fixer for making things "personal", which, I know, is a bit hypocritical. Although no anal references were made by me, which makes a difference, I think... Thank you for being such a good sport, Fixer.

I really don't care at all about the context of this debate... perhaps I should. I really, really don't, though. As long as no damage is done to anyone (which, again, may not have been the case last time) I barely notice such things.

So it's not the topic, at all. It's the undercurrent of ugliness that bugs me. I just know that we can communicate without insults.

We can. :D



Tinsel: :D It just came to me.... :P


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