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Member Apathy

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Eruname
Post subject: Member Apathy
Posted: Sun 30 Jan , 2005 7:17 pm
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Lately, I've become frustrated by a lack of feedback from some members here. There seems to be a core of around 10 people who always voice their opinions and to them I am very appreciative.

The admin are here to help make this place better, but the thing is, we need to know what people want. I have started a couple of threads trying to get input from people about what we should do about certain things. One had 7 people vote, another had 14 people vote. Others have had 5 or 6 people reply.

Now how are the admin supposed to know what to do when so few contribute input? This can be frustrating for admin and it makes them feel like they have their hands tied. They have the power to help out but can't do so because no consensus is being reached.

Member apathy has reared it's ugly head concerning voting procedures. We never really decided anything in the beginning. A few people voiced their opinion, noone else said anything and it was assumed we had everything settled (this can actually pertain to the time periods for admin and how long invitation threads run as well). Now when things don't work quite the way everyone wants it to, we realize that nothing was ever settled.

I bring this up because right now we're really trying to set up procedures and protocol for this board, most importantly in the invitation section. Every member's input is needed in order to make this board successful and what everybody wants.

Please don't let a handful of members decide everything. Please come and help out. It's a priveledge that we are able to make our own message board and not just conform to someone else's ideas!

Last edited by Eruname on Mon 07 Feb , 2005 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 2:02 am
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I appreciate your frustration, Eru. I guess I should explain myself succinctly.

I have not been voicing my opinion for a number of reasons:

1. I strangely don't yet feel validated on this MB. I know I must have been voted in by some kind of majority, but I still, to this day, wonder whether there may be some who don't welcome my presence. This is all tied up with the voting procedure, hence my next point...

2. I'm conflicted with regards to the concept of an invitation-only message board and the implications for exclusiveness. black-balling, etc.

I'm here because I want to be; I followed friends here and I'm keen to develop those acquaintance/friendships. The process I haven't come to terms with though.

Until I feel easy about it all, I'd feel like a fraud participating in those aspects of the board's development. I hope that doesn't cause you unhappiness or disappointment - it's just how I feel.


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Leoba
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 8:19 am
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Eruname, I'm sorry to hear that it's getting to you. I guess so long as those people who aren't participating know that they can and are desired to, there's nothing you can do to force them. And thus decisions will end up taken based on the opinions of those who do take part.

I'm one of those people who believes that participation in a democratic process ought to be an obligation for every citizen. Hence my attachment to abstain options and my busy-body presence in many threads. But you can't force folk.


Impenitent, I'm pretty sure you were voted in here without any dissention. Regardless of that, as a member you have as much right as anyone else to participate or not as you feel you can. :smile:


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Dindraug
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 8:46 am
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If it is any consolation Impenitant, the votes were yes, and quickly. It was one of those landslide ones.

And the voteing is I think a temporary thing. It will not go on forever. It is just that we are a new board still, but a new board that came from a badplace for many of us and some wounds are still raw. Bare with us all, we are also coming to terms with the new way and it's scary. What was a sanctuary for us, is becomeing open to all and that is hard to deal with sometimes.

But for the moment, it is the way things are done and it needs participation. And not just from the Admin :mrgreen: .

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Nin
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 9:13 am
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Eru, I have been very absent all over the boards and especially in the boards policy over the last week. Lots of work and the grief about my sunken boat, a husband not comprehensive concerning my online time... many things. Usually, I try to imply myself for this board. I want to make it a better place. I will try harder.


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Rodia
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 11:52 am
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Me , I'm just lazy, and tired of thinking. I guess I got into this board with an attitude of, huzzah, a place that works, but when the board asked me to participate and make it work, I was like, give me a break.

So it's good to have a voice of frustration give that whack on the head and say, hey, lazybum, do your share.

:hug: Eru.


Oh good grief, now I'm getting flashbacks from 'The Witness' and the Amish barn-raising.

:Q

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 1:57 pm
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Eru :hug: I know how frustrating this is but believe me.. there is something even more frustrating: Wanting to be here more often and just not having the time for it, especially those very important decisions we're in the process of forumlating. The last two weeks especially have been a roler-coaster ride from hell for me and I feel I've spread myself like butter over too much bread.
Here things are important that demand my attention but at the same time all hell is breaking loose in RL and somewhere I've got to draw the line. I was hoping this week would start out better for me and even took leave of absence this morning from my 'Monday morning job' only to find myself entagled yet again in another problem I thought solved. And so, instead of having the time to catch up and ponder here...
It's frustrating to say the least.

:hug: to you and me ;) ... and two tons of patience
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Kaya
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 7:00 pm
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I'm sorry Eru :( I completely understand your frustration. I try to vote everywhere I feel it's necessary, but when it comes to writing something down to voice my opinion... I'm very tired, and RL is giving me too many headaches at the moment to even try to write something down which can't be misinterpreted - something I seem to be really good at. :roll:
I'll do my best though, to be a little more vocal in the future.

:hug:

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 9:04 pm
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Eru, I agree that we all need to pay attention to these issues until the main ones get resolved. The price of democracy is eternal vigilance, and all that. :tired:

I'm going to post one discussion/decision thread here to help one discussion get started at least. That's all I had time to put together today.

Impenitent, I imagine that everyone feels as you do to a certain extent, so it's probably important to say that ... this is my observation at least for the people who arrived after me ... that nearly every invitation thread has been a unanimous affirmation process. So far, from what I've seen, when serious questions were raised the invitation was postponed, so if you're here, you should assume that it was unanimous.

Jn

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Elenath
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Posted: Mon 31 Jan , 2005 10:06 pm
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I will do my best to stick a few more oars in from now on. I tend to read a discussion, and if I agree with something that's been said, just not say anything rather than saying "me too". ;) However, that's not the best option in a democracy, and I'll do my best to overcome my lurker habits and actually speak up :)

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 1:30 am
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I'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty. Please understand that.

I know that noone can force anybody to participate, but I at least wanted to try to persuade them to take part once. Also, simply voting in any poll would be helpful. You don't have to go writing essays all around the board.

Also, this doesn't just pertain to invites. I'm referring to all the decision making that's going on.

Imp, your opinion is wanted as well. You're a full member and shouldn't worry about that sort of thing.


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Rodia
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 1:37 am
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Eru, you didn't make me feel guilty. I made myself feel guilty- because I am guilty of that apathy. I didn't participate...because I was lazy.

Had you not spoken up I might have remained lazy, and then wondered why the board wasn't evolving.

You're our admin for now. It's your job to say stuff like this. :) Thanks for doing it so well. :)

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Holbytla
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 4:12 am
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I am finding it very difficult to fight with my wife, post on 2 messageboards, write emails, PMs, IMs, work, be a father to 4 kids, fight with my wife (at least twice a day), etc...
There is just so much to read and write. It is hard to keep up with everything sometimes, especially on a day like this.
I will do better.

Kenny are you still on that damn computer????? :roll:

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Farawen
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 3:27 pm
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On the other hand...

(Sorry. ;))

People get tired of voting, and of democracy in general, if there are too many votes etc. going on.

And another thing, for which the invite time frames thread is a good example. The choices in that thread are "7 days" and "10 days". I'm sorry, but I do understand those who don't care if it's going to be 7 days, or 10. If people had to choose between say, 2 days, 20 days, and 200 days, things might look different. But we should also keep in mind that if people don't care about one way or the other, they are voicing an opinion too.


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 6:31 pm
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Here's some things (ignoring the mandatory democracy point)...

Time, or the lack thereof. This comes out in two forms. One is just not caring. I'm seeing a lot of stuff going on that personally, I could care less about. Either I don't think they're necessary, or I don't see how they affect me. Personally I see a lot being done that I don't really see a reason for, like deciding the invitation time period as Fara pointed out. The other form of time issues is I'm Not going to read through a bunch of chit-chat bullshit to get maybe three thoughts out of it. If you want us to be active, have a discussion thread about an issue, and have a voting thread about the issue, controlled by the admin, and post the BARE MINIMUM information. I might take the time to peruse those threads, but I don't have the time to wade through all the yakking you all do when you don't have anything else to do.

Hmm, that seems to be it for now...not feeling like things need to be done, not having the patience or the time to wade through six pages of discussion just to find that by the end everything was decided before I even got online, and not caring enough. Oh, that's what I wanted to speak about...personally I don't care about a lot of this...if something comes up I Do care about of course I'm going to speak up. I've said that about the invitations...I ain't going in there to read a ton of posts about people I don't give a shit about, and will probably never talk to. Not a good use of my time. So I trust those of you who, for whatever strange reason, Do give a shit about whatever it is to come up with the right decision. I do think you need to do nice summeries of what's going on so those of us without the time can know what's happening...but I am Not going to put up with being forced to read endless chatter just because those people think everyone should experience to their adorable linguistic skills.

Now I really know why I'm turning into an anarchist...you all can come up with whatever rules you want, and apparently you think you need a lot...

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satch
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 6:46 pm
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Good day, Guru dear?

But yeah, I think having a summary of what has been decided in a discussion would be a good idea. Maybe in the first post of the thread or something. That way people can at least know what's going on even if they don't want to participate in the discussion/chit-chat bullshit/yakking, or whatever.

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 7:15 pm
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Right...rant time! :rage: :rage:

I'm sooooooo close to just saying "FUCK IT! I don't want this damn admin job anymore!!!" When I read stuff like "I'm tired of voting", "I just don't care", "I'm too lazy", "Too many things to vote on", it makes me want to ask, Then what the hell are we doing here??? Why bother with anything?? If noone wants to work to construct this board then maybe we should all just go back to TORC and deal with the shit there.
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I see a lot being done that I don't really see a reason for, like deciding the invitation time period
Well people were bitching that it wasn't long enough or it was too short...so in order to prevent problems in the future, doesn't that need to be hammered out?

Oh wait...nobody gives a shit.

I feel like the majority of my time spent on trying to make things better and feeling like my hands are completely tied because I don't know what people want has been a big waste. I have a life too you know! I have a husband and TWO jobs, things that need to be cleaned...bills to pay!

I seriously think the next admin needs to be found soon because I'm not sure how much more of this I can take.

[/rant]


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 7:25 pm
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Dang it! You caught on to my plot!

All I was doing was annoying people enough to make me an admin as punishment...and then you all would suffer!!!

Muahahahahahaha!

That's right, I don't give a shit...'cause I don't see where the system is broken. I invited my sister and patiently waited 10 days when the issue was decided on the first day. And I didn't care about it because that was the system. And personally, I don't see where the system is broken, and I haven't seen anyone try to point it out to me. Maybe if I spent the next day studying three threads discussing invitations I Might figure it out. That's why I want those who Do give a shit to come up with simple, small, informative statements about the issues, so that the rest of us can see why they care, and then maybe we might care too.

You tell me where the problems are and I'll take notice.

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 7:30 pm
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They're everywhere.


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Tue 01 Feb , 2005 7:34 pm
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Well, I would love a simple explanation...

I guess that was the problem with TORC...some saw the problems, and a lot didn't. I know there were problems I didn't see...maybe I'm not good at noticing them. But like I said, I'll definitely listen, and give you my opinion on them. Not sure what else I can do.

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