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Should we be concerned about having younger (17 and under) people vieweing this board?
Yes
  
33% [ 6 ]
No
  
67% [ 12 ]
Total votes: 18
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Lidless
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 11:52 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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:Q Given a 17 yo has spoken the wisest words in this thread, any thoughts of exclusion should be trodden into the ground.

Satch is right. Remember Nin's exercise with *that* sig pic?

Exclusion = loss of richness and vitality.

..even if it is satch.

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Farawen
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 11:56 pm
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:x

How DARE you insinuate my "OMG OLRI IZ SO H0TT NAD KEWL OMG!!1" was not wise, HOW DARE YOU!!1

Shakespeare, basically. Sheesh.


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Holbytla
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Posted: Sat 05 Feb , 2005 11:58 pm
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Satch relax. Nobody wants you to go anywhere. Especially me.
There are however different sites for different people. Not everyone can be happy here, and some of those people are too young to decide for themselves. Parents cannot watch every move their kids make. That is why we have ratings for movies etc. I think that would work here as well. This site is mostly PG-13, but there is some R-rated stuff here. Why not tell it like it is, and label this site R-rated?

So Farafiverwen. Didn't mean to give you a headache, but I was trying to illustrate a point. sm000ch

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Sassafras
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:03 am
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What holby said.

In his first post. <horror> Not the second.

Call me selfish, call me Ishmael (sorry) but I'm not interested in interacting with the majority of young teens. I know that there are
always exceptions but frankly I like having a closed, invitational only, community. I realize that will change in the future, but, and I speak
only for myself, a 500 or so membership culled from the best of TORC
would be optimal for me.

I'm less afraid of being offensive than in being offended.
And bored.

Naturally, I bow before the majority rule.

Just thinking out loud is all.


Edit: No. Not satch. satch is an exception. and IMO in the minority.


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satch
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:21 am
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I'm calm Holby dearest, I was just mildly annoyed is all ;). And decided to take full advantage of the fact that I can bitch here and that's accepted practice :P.

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Lidless
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:22 am
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Sass,

We'll set up an option to be able to ignore posters. Plus the netspeakers will be herded into their own forum.

Eventually, like-minded people will migrate to different forums, once they're set up. Mobile evolution if you like.

It'll be a problem at first, but each will find their niche. I mean, few youngsters like the ambiance of an elegant restaurant, and few older people like going to an abominally loud disco. When people join, these individual areas will naturally start to grow of their own accord, facilitated by the set up of the forums.

It'll be OK. Really. It'll just take a bit of time.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:40 am
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TheLidlessEyes wrote:
:Q Given a 17 yo has spoken the wisest words in this thread, any thoughts of exclusion should be trodden into the ground.

Satch is right. Remember Nin's exercise with *that* sig pic?

Exclusion = loss of richness and vitality.

..even if it is satch.
Except that's exactly what I said too, I agree!

And it was E*s pic. With the dolphins.

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Sassafras
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:41 am
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Thanks, Lidless. You make good sense.

I'll need to start cultivating patience now though.

:mrgreen:




Hi satch!


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Rodia
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 12:46 am
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I hope we never have enough netspeakers for them to need their own forum.

If someone comes in here with 'asl all do u think frodo was gai OMG' I will politely tear their head off and stuff a dictionary down their throat.

No, I'm sorry, I don't want us to make any sort of allowances for people who can't bother to type properly. I don't want to hope they'll evolve, give them a special playground, treat them gently because they've got smaller brains. I want to tell them to either start expressing themselves properly or go away.

[/rant]

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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 1:31 am
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I'll echo Rodia...we Can have board guidelines...and you all can bet your butts that one of them, in big red, dripping letters will be "NO NETSPEAK!!!"

I imagine the letters will fade after awhile...it'll get out that I repaint them in the blood of the n00bs I catch ignoring the rule...

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*E*V*E*N*S*T*A*R*
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 5:48 am
I've cried a thousand oceans, and I would cry a thousand more if that's what it takes to sail you home.
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truehobbit wrote:
TheLidlessEyes wrote:
:Q Given a 17 yo has spoken the wisest words in this thread, any thoughts of exclusion should be trodden into the ground.

Satch is right. Remember Nin's exercise with *that* sig pic?

Exclusion = loss of richness and vitality.

..even if it is satch.
Except that's exactly what I said too, I agree!

And it was E*s pic. With the dolphins.
I was gonna ask what Nin did, but yes, I do remember that post of mine. Some similar points are being discussed here.

It's sad to think that one day we may have to shoo netspeakers off to a forum we've designated for them. I mean, haven't they already been shooed off from somewhere else when they decided to come here? Where will the sub-dividing end? :P I understand broadening ourselves to appeal to more of the kinds of people we want here, but I'm sorry - I won't budge an inch for folks I don't want in the first place.

Ooo that sounded so exclusive. Like those jerks in the 60's who didn't want "colored" people using their washrooms. :Q

Anyway, I just figure that all messageboards are what they are. They can change and try to get more people in, but in my opinion that'll just seperate us further. There is a difference between a website that appeals to certain types and they are given several forums to post in for their different interests, and a website that has no real distinction but each of it's forums is made up of certain types of people. I mean, can you just imagine years from now our Turf forum taking on the Movies forum in an awards ceremony? :roll: TORC was sort of a place where many different boards could come together. There wasn't a whole lot of mixing... most forums just stuck to themselves.

I'll be sad to stop posting with Leoba or Guru because I don't role-play, or Rodia or Estel because they like to chat in Turf threads. The way the boards are now, we all post in every forum and are always passing one another. Obviously I look forward to board77 growing and all that, I just worry that as we get in more people with very different personalities, it is them who will split us up because we will have to make more forums to appeal to their personalities and then everyone will gravitate to their little groups again.

I wasn't around TORC in the begining, so I am sure this is exactly what you guys had to go through, ;) but this is new for me. I sound like an ass, I realize, but hey, I like the idea of b77 itself being for certain types of people. IMO, the new people who join (mostly I'm talking about the non-TORCers......... or perhaps the kiddie TORCers who heard that we have no terms of service and can swear) should be accommodating us, and not the other way around. It probably comes down to a choice between keeping your site's intended personality, or changing it to accommodate your growing membership. This is what Jonathan had to deal with from the start.

EDIT: oh, and what Ro and Guru said - I dunno if a "no netspeak" rule is going to work. I mean, we will occassionally break it, and then where do you draw the line? If it's the personality types generally associated with netspeakers you are trying to dissuade, well I guess if a Fandom forum turns up here then at least they'll be out of your hair. Also, you can try that "if you don't like it, don't read it" jive that you'd tell others who don't like your naughty posts. ;)

(I'd just like to clarify that the phrase should be "if you read it and don't like it - fuck off or shut up". I always hated the thought that you'd have to not like something before you read it. I mean, how can you tell you won't like it if you haven't read it yet? Anyhoos...)




*E*

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 6:23 am
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I always thought it was a nice idea that Torc demanded proper use of the language. There's no reason why we can't make that a defining characteristic of B77 as well ... being member-run, we'll just all take responsibility for reminding new members to speak properly. The preponderance of non-native English speakers is a perfectly good reason for demanding readable English.

The level of discussion has a way of sorting itself out, I think. Some threads will be more esoteric than others, and the people who don't want to follow a serious discussion really won't be tempted to enter. Torc has its spammers, but I noticed that in threads like the TMU thread not one person entered without having a constructive contribution to make. That doesn't only come from enforcement of the TOS, it comes from the culture of the posters.

We'll acculturate new members, and those who can't be bothered having adult-style conversations will just drift away because they won't be able to find anyone who'll spam along with them.

Jn

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Nienor SharkAttack
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 11:43 am
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Try to kick me out, and my ghost will come back and haunt you for all eternity...

:devil:

No, seriously. I'm 16 (and 1/2, mind you! :P), and I love this board. Sure, there are sex jokes, Lidless and other horrible things here, but I don't mind. :mrgreen: Heck, the media is dirtier and much, much more disrespectful than Board 77 and its posters! I've seldom seen so many great people in one place. And if I don't want to read about the posters' worst sexual experiences or whatever, who's forcing me to do so?

I know people younger than me who would fit in fine here. I know people older than me who would get banned before you could say "Teskjekjerringa". I joined TORC as an innocent 13-year-old, and I've never caused any problems there with net speak or simple ignorance (I hope... :whistle: ).

Age often matters so little. Don't judge people by it. And if parents want to shield their children from things on the internet, they will usually do so.

If B77 started to shut out people because they were born a year or two too early, without even trying to find out if they are "worthy" members, I would get very disappointed.

(Besides, an age limit of 17 would make this board suffer from a gruesome lack of sharks. Imagine such a cruel fate! Oh, the horror! *Dramatic gesture*)

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 3:00 pm
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Nienor - I don't think anyone wants to shut people out because of age. The question seems to boil down to three issues:
• whether we legally need that form for those under 13
• what should our front page say about adult content
• what guidelines should we have for netspeak and 'soft' spam

We had two of the coolest sixteen year olds at our m00t and their parents came with them. I thought it was really neat that the parents would do that instead of just saying 'no you can't go.'

Jn

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Holbytla
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 3:09 pm
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In the interests of self preservation, and just plain covering our asses, I suggest that we
  • Put a label on the front page alerting people to the content of the board

    Require a simple acknowledgment regarding the terms of service, ie. stating that anyone who joins is 13 or older
I am not interested in necessarily keeping out people younger than 17, but I do not want to deal with cencorship because we are inundated with teens or preteens. I do not want this place do turn TORCish.
I am looking for an older atmosphere, as I think most here are.

Shark girl, for the record, I did say that anyone currently here should be grandfathered. :P

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Dindraug
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 3:49 pm
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It would be nuts to limit the age to 17 and above, it is a strange age to choose. Not sure I understand.

Athough as a threat to hold over Scratch and Nienor shark bait I can think of no better....... :LMAO:

But, can we try and aviod putting 'These pages have adult content; we may discuss things of an adult nature' etc on the front page as;

A- It is patronising both to potential newcommers and to us.

B- It will appear on all those search engines and attract the perverts and trolls we so fervently don't want.

Limiting the age of members to 13 and over is a good idea I think, but we have to consider how we put that accross. I did think we should have something like; ' You will probably not understand the conversations that happen here if you are under 13. Be warned' or 'If you think OMG OLRI IZ SO H0TT NAD KEWL OMG!!1' is the way to post on a messgaeboard, you will be ridiculed and made to cry so don't try it here'

Sorry, that was off the top of my head, but I don't think we wan't a pack of panting snowdogs here ;)

And net speak should be banned, but until it is, I think a policy of taking the piss unreservedly out of netspeak users is our duty.

Which reminds me...

Farawen, po'ed ....

Oh and Guru, is nOObie not netspeak....muppet ;)

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Holbytla
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 4:09 pm
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People that run web sites have certain obligations.
I am not suggesting we advertize any such thing on the front page, but I am suggesting we cover our asses legally.
There has to be a way of alerting people without being patronizing.
This is all probably much ado about nothing, as these issues generally solve themselves.
If you want to have 13+ in here, fine. It doesn't really matter to me.
The day I find myself surrounded by butterfly huggles and orliizsohott!!11, I am outta here.

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Leoba
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 4:58 pm
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I was having a bit of a nosey around about ages and websites. Is it the The Children's Online Privacy Protection Rule that explains why so many forums restrict membership to 13+ ? And does that mean that we're covered in a legal sense so long as we have that restriction in place?

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 5:10 pm
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Actually :halo: when you put your registration in for here... there was a page you had to click on. Remember? :mrgreen: Something about being above 13 bla bla bla.....parental consent.. bla bla bla
So something 'basic' is already in place.

You know, honestly :oops: .. you can call me 'Ishmael' too, like Sass

I know I know I know... but I'm allowed a bit of wishful thinking, no? :halo:
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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 06 Feb , 2005 5:28 pm
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Din, I didn't think about the possibility that a warning would actually attract the wrong kind of people. That's a very good point.

I do think we want some kind of warning for freaked-out parents who filter everything their kid does, 'cos we don't want irate emails all over the place. But it will require some good thinking to decide how to do that.

Jn

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