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Matters concerning democracy (the poster)

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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:18 am
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I recrossposted with Ang again.
Say that 3 times fast.
Ang again.
Ang again.
Ang again.

Too often I have seen the laissez faire attitude come back and bite us on the ass. You can call this pre-emptive overreaction, pointless or anything else you want.

I call it action/reaction.

It is beyond my comfort zone to tolerate what was done, and I am not going to compromise myself over this because it may cause drama or people forced to do some work.

I believe there needs to be standards in every community and I feel those standards were not only breached but trampled upon.

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Angbasdil
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:21 am
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And I feel that the breach and trample has been adequately dealt with.
You don't feel that way.
We'll just have to disagree on that.

Do what you're gonna do. I'm done with it (I mean it this time ;) ).


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Eruname
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:34 am
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FIA

Last edited by Eruname on Sat 01 Dec , 2007 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:40 am
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And I will reiterate the place for such discussions should be separate.
Trying to sway people in this thread is inappropriate imo.

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Eruname
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:08 am
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...this place blows...

Last edited by Eruname on Sat 01 Dec , 2007 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:35 am
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I admitted that I myself was wrong to engage in the philosophical aspects of this in the same place the actual discussion was going on.
It is one big mishmash and there needs to be separate threads.

I tapped into my magic powers and presto made this appear...

http://www.board77.net/viewtopic.php?t=5336

It is hard enough making this type of decision. There needs to be a separate place for people to post if they want to bring a hearing against someone.

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Amrunelen
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:53 am
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Well....wan't this a fun read. Don't know why I even felt compelled to go through all 12 pages. :scratch: Guess I'm more of an observer with no personal qualms against any of the arguers.

Anyway...seeing mention of the jury pool a ways back reminded me that there is one. And I will happily fling myself into the pool of murky waters of discussion and trial, though wish nothing to do with the current matter at hand. Reading was enough. :blackeye: But someone can toss my name in. (and I salute the rangers that have to wade through pages such as these).

Will float back to my own happy little oblivious haunts now.

Strange these things always seem to happen around what's supposed to be one of the warmest, welcoming, good-will-towards-men times of year. :scratch: Guess I'm just too much of a romantic optimist sometimes.

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WampusCat
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:59 am
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The Watcher wrote:
I note with serious comment that NOBODY here has started up any effort to revisit the charter and scrap it, change it, amend it, or anything else. I also note that we have a whopping seventeen people in the jury pool, and even less than that in the ranger pool.

I know we all have busy real lives and all, but does the phrase "put your money where your mouth is" mean anything here? It is really easy to come and criticize and comment and fly by when you have nothing at all vested here, and nobody says you should have, but, then , why are you even bothering to comment?
You're right, Watcher. You may add me to the jury pool, although I feel sure you will fill up before reaching me.

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The Watcher
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 5:23 am
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Erunáme wrote:
Damnit, I have to post again because I'm not going to have my posts labeled as "inappropriate". I'm not concerned with the matter of the hearing but I am concerned with my posts being labeled incorrectly.
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And I will reiterate the place for such discussions should be separate.
Where, pray tell, is that supposed to be?
Quote:
Trying to sway people in this thread is inappropriate imo.
:roll: Hardly. The thread is titled "Matters concerning democracy (the poster)". It is quite appropriate to post that one doesn't believe a hearing is the way to go because that is a matter that concerns democracy the poster. Until the thread is specifically labeled for procedural discussion about the hearing, people are posting in an entirely appropriate manner.

This thread has been a mishmash of all things pertaining to the situation with democracy. To say that people were being inappropriate for expressing their opinion that a hearing is not the way to go is simply unfair and in my opinion wrong and rude.

(Does Firefox have some sort of web page blocking feature? Because I so need to get something like that and try to block myself out of b77. It's all so not worth it. It's a freakin' habit to keep coming here and reading...it's retarded that I keep doing it to myself.)
Eruname -

I split off the thread, and yes, it is a mishmash, but at this point it is what is here to discuss it until I can finally get around to setting up the other hopefully more sane threads.

As far as blocking this site, I know that if you employ a firewall, you can block it, that is not a feature on Mozilla/Firefox, but it is possibly one with your IP provider depending on who that may be, or you can certainly install your own. I block all sorts of sites with my firewall, mainly because I do not think my ten year old should be seeing them. I also password protect other sites.

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Farawen
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 8:53 am
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TheMary wrote:
I don't ask for thanks for praise. Yes I posted that but was I serious?! :roll: Not so much. Dude was freaking out so I gave him some of his own crazy sauce.

All democracy had to do was ask if I was serious but he didn't he assumed (hmm does anyone else see a trend here?) and then flipped out. Thanks for your input though :).
Hi TM.

You really don't have to justify yourself, not to me at least.

This board exists because many people were appalled by some mods' behavior on another messageboard. Your 'tude wasn't all that different, really.

I can only say that I would have appreciated it if a Ranger on b77 abstained from baiting someone. You may not have been serious, and many here - but definitely not all - may shrug it off as a "little quip", which you are prone to produce; but I do think there was an underlying presumption on your side that democracy, not knowing you and your posting style, would "flip out" instead of asking you what you meant by saying "I am better than you in every sense of the word now get on your knees and kiss my shoes".

I kinda wish he hadn't offered people to do things which involved his wiener but called a hearing right after that comment instead.

:)

Last edited by Farawen on Fri 30 Nov , 2007 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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TheMary
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 8:56 am
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I don't see what's inappropriate about Eru's involvement during this discussion Holby. It's her right as a poster to say what she feels and she has done so in a polite civil manner just as it was your right to call a hearing.

Clearly there are some who want a hearing and some who feel it's excessive. But we are actually having a nice discussion without all hell breaking loose which is a refreshing change from the days of old.

We are allowed to disagree that doesn't mean the hearing won't happen, in fact, it will happen. It's still a person's right to voice their disagreement.

The key is not to take things personally.


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Alatar
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 11:18 am
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It seems a bit ironic that the people who are complaining about the hearing prolonging the drama are actually creating more drama than the hearing.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 1:20 pm
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TheMary wrote:
I don't see what's inappropriate about Eru's involvement during this discussion Holby. It's her right as a poster to say what she feels and she has done so in a polite civil manner just as it was your right to call a hearing.

Clearly there are some who want a hearing and some who feel it's excessive. But we are actually having a nice discussion without all hell breaking loose which is a refreshing change from the days of old.

We are allowed to disagree that doesn't mean the hearing won't happen, in fact, it will happen. It's still a person's right to voice their disagreement.

The key is not to take things personally.
I agree and perhaps I am being overly sensitive and defensive.

I have to ask some questions though.
At what point has it gone beyond people voicing their opinions and become people trying to influence others and foist their philosophies on others?

Eru was all miffed because I said I didn't think it was appropriate to try and sway someone in this thread, and felt that someone going through this process needed a place to do so without outside influences.
All despite these very words from her;
Quote:
They are disagreeing with calling a hearing in the first place. That's it. Some of us have been hoping this wouldn't happen...giving our input in hopes of the request being withdrawn. That's it.
Am I missing something or isn't that someone trying to influence?
I appreciate the opinions, and I have read them. I don't share that opinion. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction and the nastiness that goes on around here needs to stop. How is continuing to express opinions productive at this point?
A simple "I feel you shouldn't do this because..." would suffice. To belabor the point is what breeds the resentment and causes drama.

The over tolerance and inaction around here is what breeds the nastiness. Sweeping things aside has got us where? Having no deterrents has got us where?

The attacks, the nastiness, and the derisive language is going to stop.

I am far away from being a sensitive individual. I am as crude, coarse and blunt as anyone. If I have had enough then the incidents around here have gone too far.

I keep coming back here to see people that I enjoy, and I keep seeing the same garbage over and over again. The inaction doesn't work. I am taking a different approach. I am not going to be swayed.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:06 pm
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I'm hardly replying to the question promptly but yes, please add me to the jury pool.

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tinwe
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:22 pm
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Thank you Tosh. I’ve added your name, along with Wampus and Runes and Jude.

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halplm
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 3:56 pm
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Alatar wrote:
It seems a bit ironic that the people who are complaining about the hearing prolonging the drama are actually creating more drama than the hearing.
This statement really pisses me off. And Alatar, I'm assuming you were just pointing out the irony for amusement purposes, so let me make it clear that YOU are not pissing me off :).

This is the kind of thing, however, that I have constantly been trying to make a point about. The people complaining about the hearing are NOT the cause of any drama. Any drama takes many parties, and blaming the people on one side of an argument for prolonging it and "causing drama" is factually untrue, and adds flames to the fire, as it were. In this case, especially, because you're accusing people of doing what they would like to prevent.

You could easily, and I think more accurately, say that calling for the hearing is what has caused ALL the drama here.
Holby wrote:
I am taking a different approach. I am not going to be swayed.
I tried this once... didn't help.

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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:14 pm
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I'm glad to see people volunteering for the jury pool. :grouphug:

That's all I have to say at the moment.


Lali

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WampusCat
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:51 pm
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[OT]

Lali, I love your sig photo. What a thoughtful feline!

[/OT]

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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 4:55 pm
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[OT] I know!!!!!! Isn't he sweet? *squeeee!!!!* :love: [/OT]

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Angbasdil
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Posted: Fri 30 Nov , 2007 5:24 pm
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Alatar wrote:
It seems a bit ironic that the people who are complaining about the hearing prolonging the drama are actually creating more drama than the hearing.
I'll own that.

In fact, I was considering the very thought last night, and I didn't like it. So I decided to sleep on it. I awoke this morning with a fresh perspective. You see, I remembered something. I remembered that I don't really give a flying rat's ass about charters and rules and trials and such. I don't come here for the charter. I come here because this is where my friends are. And Holby is one of those friends.

There's a cognitive dissonanace that occurs when someone you like and respect does something you think is wrong, or stupid, or just useless. When that happens you should tell them. You should discuss it. That's what friends do. Then, if they decide to go ahead with what they were doing, the only way to resolve the dissonance is to let something go - either your objections to their actions, or your friendship. And since, as I just remembered, I don't care about trials and stuff, I'm gonna let this matter go. In fact, I should have done so about three or four pages ago. Instead, I let myself become part of the very problem I was complaining about.

For that, I apologize.

So I'm gonna go practice what I preach and do what I do best - post something stupid and of absolutely no consequence.

oh wait - I've already done that today


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