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Matters concerning democracy (the poster)

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democracy
Post subject: Matters concerning democracy (the poster)
Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 3:22 pm
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(Edit - I have split off this thread from the original entitled "Banning hal" since the topic at hand has changed significantly.

The Watcher, 8:17 am CST 11/28/07)


I think it's fair to demand a recount.

But I don't think it makes sense to elect officers or vote upon an issue until you have first elected your membership to the purpose of your organization.

Why am I here? Just been snooping about for some democratic organization on the Web, happened to be online to post at HoF in my "Measured Discourse" thread, thought I'd pop in on B77 and do a quick search of the word "democracy" and see if anything was happeneing here, think that took me to a thread about drama? and that led to the ban hal thread? Or visa versa, can't remember exactly.


Then I figured I'd read some of this and decided to post.

I don't vote in bogus polls.

I just think that the most obnoxious and destructive behavior for a web community is to call for bans on members. I only wish I could ban the banners but that is against my principles.

I had wanted to continue my conversation at HoF but now that I hear of Hal being banned over there I have serious doubts about continuing.

You see, that is how destructive it is. When you ban one member you always alienate and lose others.

As far as where the Internet is as community, i think it is a vast pit of crap on a highway of hotels but when I stumbled along upon B77 I gave you ONE STAR * for your interest and effort.

But I am looking for a FIVE STAR ***** hotel. And still haven't found one. :(


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Leoba
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 3:25 pm
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I'd hate to pitch up at a 5* hotel. I feel terribly uncomfortable in those sort of stiffled surroundings.

B77 is more like a half-wild campground. We're allowed to light fires and get horribly drunk now and again and run around playing wild ball games (and if you look in the woods over there you might even find a bunch of friendly LARPers). That's more my kind of place. ;)

Last edited by Leoba on Mon 26 Nov , 2007 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Watcher
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 3:31 pm
Same as it ever was
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And we don't ask questions about what goes on in the tents at night, either. :D

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Leoba
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 3:32 pm
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We don't need to when people keep forgetting they've left the torch on. ;)

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democracy
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 4:59 pm
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The worst effect to the community is caused by bannings. Banning results in the invasion of my privacy. For if I enter a forum at anytime during or after a banning, I am going to be immediateley subjected to an IP check.

I don't think that anyone will doubt that my IP was checked as soon as I made my first post at B77 and now after presenting myself in this thread.

Checking my IP is kind of like sticking your hand in my underwear. I'm not comfortable with it. You have no legitimate business in there.

Democratic community can be had for a pittance of problems that we now expend ourselves upon. We can have democratic community that is incredibly efficient and respects the equality and privacy of every member.

What is the purpose of this community? And who best qualifies for the purpose? If the purpose is to build democratic community then it is counterproductive to ban the "squeaky wheels".

But there needs to be a clear separation of those who are most committed to democratic organizational principles because that is the common goal.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 5:06 pm
Same as it ever was
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No one has been banned here, in fact, the farthest it ever even got was discussions about it. And, as you can see from this poll, which I am not in favor of necessarily, the results were pretty equal which tells a lot to my mind about how a significant number of people here feel about such things.

And no, I have not "checked" your IP address, why would I feel the need to? It will not tell me anything that would be worth knowing.

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Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 miles per second, is a cow that has been dropped from a helicopter.

Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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Glaciers melting in the dead of night and the superstars sucked into the supermassive...
Supermassive Black Hole.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 5:49 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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Anyone want to check my IP? :heya:

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The Watcher
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 5:50 pm
Same as it ever was
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ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:
Anyone want to check my IP? :heya:
Yeah, you would probably like it too much!! ;)

:D:D

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Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 miles per second, is a cow that has been dropped from a helicopter.

Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

- Dave Barry


Glaciers melting in the dead of night and the superstars sucked into the supermassive...
Supermassive Black Hole.

- Muse


[ img ]


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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 5:58 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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Sure! Freddy's gone this week. :shrug:

I'll check yours if you'll check mine! :heya:


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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 7:35 pm
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This poll was irrelevant, being "illegal" anyway.
:rage:

Checking IP's is futile. I did it a few times when I was rangerized, but it meant nothing on most people, as they were not posting from static IP addys. They'd have hundreds of IP addresses under their name, and it was just impossible to try to cross reference them all and see if anyone was running two identities. Unless you have a good idea of who you suspect has two identities- it just doesn't work to try and cross reference them all- unless you have waaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on your hands.

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Crucifer
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 7:49 pm
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Anthriel
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 8:42 pm
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Tosh: :LMAO:
democracy wrote:
Checking my IP is kind of like sticking your hand in my underwear. I'm not comfortable with it. You have no legitimate business in there.
This is a very vivid word picture, democracy. :D I like it. But I don't think it's terribly accurate.

Although I don't understand how talk of a banning makes your IP address more likely to be checked, I did understand that my own IP address was available to the administrators of this site. It's part of the price of communicating here. It doesn't bother me.

It's like having a face to face conversation with someone; they are going to, well, see your face. It's okay. Having someone see my face isn't really an invasion of my privacy, nor is your privacy challenged by having your IP address known on a site that you frequent. IMHO.


Quote:
As it stands, we see 17 members stomping on 16 other members.


What I see is a vote, which is a pretty darned democratic thing to do, actually. :) (I didn't vote, btw, because I feel like doing even that much would validate the poll question. And I will not choose to do that.)

So... how are 17 people giving their opinion "stomping" on 16 other people giving their opinion? I don't follow the logic in your statement, as written.


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Dindraug
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 10:14 pm
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democracy wrote:
What is the purpose of this community? And who best qualifies for the purpose? If the purpose is to build democratic community then it is counterproductive to ban the "squeaky wheels".
Errr, no idea who this Democracy is but really, the idea that we set up B77 in the purpose of building a democratic community is just laughable.

:LMAO:

Tosh, there is a whole list of people who are on the list to do that first...DEFRA for a start ;)

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oldtoby
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 10:53 pm
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Quote:
Just been snooping about for some democratic organization on the Web, happened to be online to post at HoF in my "Measured Discourse" thread
Well I suppose that narrows it down somewhat.


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vison
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 11:02 pm
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I don't like Red Delicious Apples.
Where is Frodo with Sting?

Since I am the one who said the word "troll", I will hereby remove it from the first sentence of my post.

Last edited by vison on Tue 27 Nov , 2007 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 11:11 pm
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Are you people still talking about this? :scratch:


Claiming that checking IP addresses is an invasion of whatever is much like saying caller ID is an invasion of whatever. If you don't want me to see your number, don't call me.


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democracy
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 11:30 pm
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Anthriel wrote:
So... how are 17 people giving their opinion "stomping" on 16 other people giving their opinion? I don't follow the logic in your statement, as written.
I concede the point. I repented of that about two hours after the post yesterday.

I also concede that my count of 31 was incorrect.


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democracy
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 11:35 pm
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yovargas wrote:
Claiming that checking IP addresses is an invasion of whatever is much like saying caller ID is an invasion of whatever. If you don't want me to see your number, don't call me.
Not exactly. If I call you personally on the phone an Ip check is OK. But this is not a personal call. This is a message on an open circuit in which you are inviting the public to respond. Retaliation for responses that you don't care for is uncalled for, because you have the option of discussing on a closed circuit. instead you choose to use an open circuit which turns the forum into a stage. And drama ensues. Improvised drama due to random posting on open circuits.

The public is not to blame. The responsibility is with the community.


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Ara-anna
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 11:57 pm
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yovargas wrote:
Are you people still talking about this? :scratch:


Claiming that checking IP addresses is an invasion of whatever is much like saying caller ID is an invasion of whatever. If you don't want me to see your number, don't call me.
or use *69

BTW there are plenty of ways to 'fake' an IP address. Just sayin'

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TheMary
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Posted: Tue 27 Nov , 2007 12:27 am
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Quote:
Who is democracy?
Democracy doesn't exist on this board so I say let's ignore "it".

Remember, don't give in to trolls just walk away.

We aren't banning hal anyone who voted yes needs to get over it.

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