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Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:00 pm
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I am calling a hearing against both myself and against the ranger team, because the two cases are linked.

I intend to prove three things.

1. I did not break forum rules in the events leading to my suspension.

An odd thing, considering the suspension is already over. My hope is to clear my name. In the unlikely even that I actually do break forum rules some time in the future, an honest Ranger will count that future offense as my first offense and give me the punishment of "time already served."

That won't give me back the week that Riverthalos wrongly took. The real value of this first point is that it is evidence for the second point.

2. "The rangers" abused their authority when they suspended me for not breaking any rules.

Rangers can only suspend people who did something wrong. If I did nothing wrong, "the rangers" abused their authority. Riverthalos did say that she refused to discuss the matter any further. "The rangers" are avoiding the issue of what they did.

Because of that I propose a cleaning out of the ranger team , removing any rangers who endorsed this rule breaking. Those rangers should be stripped of the rank of Ranger.

3. "The rangers" broke forum rules.

The Charter clearly states that I am to be given some form of a hearing. The rangers did not give me one, even after being reminded by two separate people that I am entitled to one, and two different forms of giving me one were presented to the,.

Because of that I propose they be suspended for a length of time determined by the jury.

In my next three posts I suppose I will supply the evidence, since that appears to be proper procedure. Whereas I wrote this initial post during my suspension and therefore could not read the Board Management forums, I was unable to gather all the evidence at that time.

By the way, I am NOT appealing sauronsfinger's suspension for him. Part of the upcoming evidence is that I was suspended for a post he made that violated the rules. His desire to not appeal his suspension will be honored. He can rest assured that I will not try to prove him innocent of anything.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:03 pm
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You need to reread the charter with regards to ranger removal.
No ranger will be removed because of this issue.
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I am calling a hearing against both myself and against the ranger team, because the two cases are linked.
On what grounds are you calling a hearing against yourself?

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:07 pm
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I'm calling for the hearing that I should have gotten last week. Duh. People are sometimes proved innocent after the sentence is served.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:08 pm
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Evidence for point one

See This Post
Riverthalos wrote:
Okay, here's the Congress thread.

CG, sf, be careful. Please.
Riverthalos gave us permission to discuss directly at each other.

SHE GAVE US PERMISSION TO DO WHAT I WAS ALLEGEDLY SUSPENDED FOR DOING!

That's the key and central, but not the only point, of my defense.

She gave us permission to post to each other, even though if the Rangers were to actually do their job more often I wouldn't need permission because attacks would be more moderated instead of blaming both the abuser and the abusee, or instead of simply blaming the abusee.

She cautioned us to be careful, but she gave us permission. So I was careful.

Here I did not attack. I did point out attacks. I was careful.

Here I did not attack, I pointed out a factual error.

Here I did not post to sauronsfinger.

Here I did not attack. I did point out attacks.

Here I did not attack. I agreed with halplm.

Here I did not post to sauronsfinger.

Here I did not post to sauronsfinger.

Here you might be able to say I attacked when I pointed out an attack.

Here you might be able to say I attacked when I pointed out an attack.

Here I did not post to sauronsfinger.

Here you might be able to say I attacked when I pointed out an attack.

Here I did not attack. I did point out attacks.

Here I did not attack. I did point out attacks.

These posts were made in the congress thread but were split to the derail after they were written.

Here I did not post to sauronsfinger.

Here I did not attack. I did point out attacks.

Here is the first post that led to my suspension. I argued with Rebecca, which is not against any rules. I argued with her about her job performance, which annoyed the rangers.

Here is the second post that led to my suspension. I argued with Rebecca, which is not against any rules. I argued with her about her job performance, which annoyed the rangers.

Here was my final permitted in thread post to sauronsfinger. Notice carefully that I didn't post any argument or attack against sauronsfinger. The text attacked Rebecca's job performance, which annoyed the rangers.

Here is the third post that led to my suspension. I argued with Rebecca, which is not against any rules. I argued with her about her job performance, which annoyed the rangers.

Here Riverthalos apparently revoked the permission she had given, and after that I no longer posted to sauronsfinger. Remember, posting to sauronsfinger is the alleged reason the rangers suspended me when they suspended me for arguing with Rebecca.

After that the thread was split. As permission was revoked AND as this was a new thread, I didn't post to sauronsfinger. sauronsfinger did continue to post to me.

Here I posted to Rebecca again. Rebecca is not sauronsfinger, so therefore not against the rules.

Here sauronsfinger posted to me, after the thread split, after the revoked permission, and therefore I am suspended for his actions. This is a very important post, because it is probably the one the rangers will use to say "see, that's why I suspended them." One post is not a "them". One post is a "him". A honest Ranger would note that.

As you can see by my posts, I tried to be careful. I had permission to communicate directly to sauronsfinger, as long as I was careful. Perhaps I could have been more careful, that can be debated. Perhaps in light of all the evidence that will be the rangers' defense, that I wasn't careful enough. I did attempt to be careful. It appears to me that one of the two participants that Riverthalos cautioned was not as careful, which led to both of us being suspended for the lack of care of the other participant.

How can I be found in violation of "don't post to him" after Riverthalos said I could? Moreover, I didn't treat her permission as a blanket permission but kept it in thread. AFTER SHE REVOKED THE PERMISSION I STOPPED POSTING TO SAURONSFINGER!

If you look at the thread which led to the suspension, you will see that sauronsfinger did post to me but I didn't post to him. I'm suspended because he posted to me? How is THAT against the rules? How can I control what other people post?

Of course by "the rangers" standard, since I mentioned sauronsfinger several times in this post, I violated the rule and this post should get me suspended. If "the rangers" don't hand out a suspension on those grounds I will present evidence for point two soon. Otherwise see you in another week when I give evidence against "the rangers".

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:12 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
Evidence for point one

See This Post
Riverthalos wrote:
Okay, here's the Congress thread.

CG, sf, be careful. Please.
Riverthalos gave us permission to discuss directly at each other.

SHE GAVE US PERMISSION TO DO WHAT I WAS ALLEGEDLY SUSPENDED FOR DOING!
Wow. Sorry, but I really don't see that as giving permission like you seem to see it.


Just needed to get that out before addressing the rest of your post.

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:13 pm
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This is not the Jury Room and you are wasting your time posting your case here. A post stating that you wanted a hearing would have sufficed.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:13 pm
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By telling us to be careful she was giving us permission to post to each other as long as we were careful.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:14 pm
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ooops apparently not.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:16 pm
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Apparently I didn't follow proper procedure. I should have posted the call for the hearing and wait vainly for two rangers to break ranks and tell me to go ahead and post the evidence in the jury room.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:19 pm
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Holbytla wrote:
ooops apparently not.
What is that in reference to?

If it's what I think it is, I can understand why you don't want a jury to judge that.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:47 pm
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So, what next? Do I post evidence for point two, or do I sit here and wait for two rangers to break ranks and say "I'm not afraid of my actions being analyzed by a jury"?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:56 pm
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I'm not "breaking rank," but I am not afraid of my actions being analyzed by a jury. Especially if it'll get you guys to stop this bickering.

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:56 pm
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You have a right to a hearing to refute the previous charges brought up against you. No rangers need comply with that. As for a hearing against River or all of us, that is another matter.

The first matter at hand is the use of extraordinary powers and whether or not the charter needs to be amended.

Second is the hearing to refute being banned.

If two rangers agree, then third is the hearing to bring charges against the ranger pool.

And the rangers have ten days to make a decision on that. Seeing how this is the holiday and at least 4 of the rangers are traveling, I would think a decision is at least a few days away.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:57 pm
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One ranger is not afraid of having actions analyzed by a jury.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:58 pm
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Why charges against the pool? :scratch:

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:59 pm
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Whoops, not against the pool of eligible. The pool of currently serving. I guess I should have said "the team".

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Wed 26 Nov , 2008 11:59 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
One ranger is not afraid of having actions analyzed by a jury.
Just because I don't doesn't mean that calling a hearing against us is the next step. Holby clearly outlined the process for you.

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:00 am
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When I said pool I was referring to all of the rangers that are siding with the one ranger who actually was on line to pull the trigger.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:01 am
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I was simply confused then. Thanks.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:01 am
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So is it the position of Holby that the issue of extraordinary powers and the committe to deal with such as mentioned in the stickied thread started by Riverthalos takes precedence over a hearing of me versus the rangers?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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