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The one week ban on sf and CG

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halplm
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:09 pm
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They did not reach an agreement (I believe). The Rangers just decided.

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:12 pm
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Jnyusa, I'm not eager at all. Save us! Or at least let me off the committee!

**begs

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Estel
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:14 pm
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Jny - thank you. :)


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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:28 pm
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I am still thinking this through, but I think I finally understand what has happened and the procedures.

SF and CG were temp banned for a week under the extraordinary powers provision.
Quote:
Extraordinary Powers of Rangers
Recognizing that unforeseen events may occur which require a quick response, Board77 Rangers are expected to use their best judgment in emergencies, and to take whatever action they believe necessary to protect the board. An emergency would be an event which threatened real and immediate harm, but which is not otherwise addressed by this charter. In such an event, the Ranger(s) in question would be expected to explain the circumstances and consult with the board membership as soon as possible. Such measures are temporary by their nature and subject to review by the standing Committee for Charter Amendments.
They had been warned repeatedly by x amount of different rangers x amount of times that this may happen.

Since extraordinary powers were used, the Committee for Charter Amendments is being called. I think this is where some confusion comes in. This committee serves only the purpose of deciding whether or not a permanent amendment to the charter is needed.

As a somewhat side issue, Lali inserted a clause into the charter around the middle of September discussing board disruptions and penalties for such under the extraordinary power of rangers.

Trying to follow this through, if the committee meets and determines there is sufficient need to amend the charter, the revision will be brought to the membership for a vote providing there is a quorum.

SF and CG have a right to contest the temp ban, but it is futile to try and reverse it as the temp ban will have expired before it can be contested.

If either or both wish, a hearing can be brought against the ranger or rangers involved in this, but two rangers have to agree that a hearing is warranted.

If that is the case, then a hearing with jury et al will have to be formed. According to the charter at best a warning could be issued, but I am not even sure that can happen.
Quote:
¶8: When is a Ranger Removed from Office

A Ranger cannot be removed from office without due process.

Except for those special cases listed, no single violation or act of negligence will be sufficient to remove a Ranger from office. If a Hearing is convened, a pattern of repeated violations or negligence damaging to the board must be shown, and a Ranger must have received Warnings and Formal Complaints.

When a Ranger resigns or is removed from office, a new Ranger is selected to complete the term of office.

Grounds for Warnings to a Ranger
• Being absent from the board for more than 72 hours without notifying the other Rangers, except in personal emergency or computer failure.
• Failing to respond in timely fashion to business-related emails and PM's from members and other Rangers.
• Posting hidden at times when the Ranger is needed to be visible.
• Special treatment of posters or arbitrary enforcement of the by-laws.
• Conduct Unbecoming a Ranger, such as discourtesy or intimidation, or attempting to influence poster behavior on other messageboards.

Procedures for Warnings to a Ranger
• The action or omission must be brought to the attention of the current
Rangers.
• Two Rangers must agree that a warning is justified.
• These two Rangers will notify the Ranger under complaint and give that person a chance to explain themselves. If the explanation is satisfactory, nothing more need be done.
• If two current Rangers still believe a warning is justified, they will write briefly the reason and forward this to the Mayor by email.
• If the current Rangers are in disagreement as to whether action is required, no warning will be filed.
• The record of warnings is maintained by the Mayor and does not become public unless it aggregates to a Formal Complaint.
• Warnings are purged after the Ranger leaves office.

Grounds for Formal Complaints Against a Ranger
• Three warnings for the same action or omission.
• Being absent from the board for more than two weeks and failing to notify the other Rangers in advance to arrange for a temporary Ranger.
• Deliberate unilateral actions for which the by-laws require a majority of Rangers to agree, or any other deliberate and direct violation of the by laws.
• Failing to convene and oversee a Hearing when required.

Procedure for Formal Complaints Against a Ranger
• The action or omission that is the basis of the Formal Complaint must be brought to the attention of the current Rangers.
• Two Rangers must agree that a Formal Complaint is justified.
• These two will notify the Ranger under complaint and give that person a chance to explain themselves. If the explanation is satisfactory, nothing more need be done.
• If the two current Rangers still believe a Formal Complaint is justified, they will write briefly the reason and forward this to the Mayor by email.
• If the current Rangers are in disagreement as to whether action is required, the Formal Complaint will be filed but it will be marked “Disputed.” Disputed complaints are purged when the Ranger’s term of office ends and will not bar them from serving as a temporary Ranger.

Time Limit and Penalty for Formal Complaints Against a Ranger
Formal complaints are kept on record for nine months following the end of a term of office. During that time, the member may not serve as a temporary Ranger or begin a new term of office as a full Ranger.

Grounds for Removal of a Ranger
• Desertion: A Ranger who deserts the board and cannot be contacted for a period of 30 days should be removed from office.
• Incoming Rangers must agree to resign if they will be away from the board for a period longer than than four full weeks, because it is not possible to replace them with a temporary Ranger. Such a resignation will not affect their eligibility to serve as a full Ranger in the future or as a temporary Ranger at any time, but their name will return to the bottom of the roster of full Rangers as if they had served their term. If a Ranger faces this circumstance and does not resign, then this is considered Grounds for Removal.
• Pattern of Absences, Failure to Respond and Other Warnings: If a series of warnings or violations results in three Formal Complaints, the other Rangers may consider whether to convene a hearing to remove that Ranger. If five Formal Complaints have been filed, a hearing is required.
• Extreme Abuse of Power: a hearing may be convened if a Ranger deliberately and maliciously bans a member who is entitled to a hearing or suspends posting rights without due process, except in the course of exercising extraordinary powers.
• An Immediate Hearing is required if a Ranger:
1. reveals private information obtained as a result of their office, such as profile information that members have made hidden or the contents of secret ballots cast by PM or email;
2. gives another poster access to the administrator panel;
3. uses the board to boast about criminal behaviors and/or encourage other posters to engage in them.

Procedure for Removal of a Ranger
• Two Rangers must agree that the charges against a Ranger are sufficiently serious and not manufactured, and that a hearing is justified. The Ranger who is considered for removal will be notified by PM and by email, and the call for a hearing will be posted in the Jury Room.
• The posting rights of the Ranger in question will be restricted to the Jury Room and administrative powers will be revoked for the duration of the hearing.

Penalties Associated with Removal of a Ranger
A Ranger can be removed from office and barred from holding office in the future for a length of time commensurate with the offense.
• Pattern of Absences, Failure to Respond and Other Warnings: One year
• Desertion: One year
• Breach of Privacy: One year
• Giving another person access to the administrator panel: One year
• Encouraging criminal behavior: One year
Other than convening a committee to amend the charter, the rest is pretty much futile.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:31 pm
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I oppose hal being given any say or power over anything or anyone anywhere ever.
I also oppose taking things on this board so blood formally and seriously and am regularly baffled at why anybody is willing to do so. But watcha gonna do.

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halplm
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:31 pm
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Don't SF and CG have a right to a hearing for themselves, to determine if the temporary ban was warrented?

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:42 pm
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halplm wrote:
Don't SF and CG have a right to a hearing for themselves, to determine if the temporary ban was warrented?
Yes and I stated they have a right to contest the decision. But by the time that comes around, the temp ban will already be over. And to make it more futile, they have to be holed up in the bikeracks while the hearing is going on.
So you are looking at a 3 week ban to overrule the decision which will already be expired.

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Jnyusa
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:45 pm
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I agree that this is kind of a weird situation, because there haven't been enough people around to go through lengthy formal procedures.
Holby wrote:
SF and CG were temp banned for a week under the extraordinary powers provision.
Right, but they didn't need to invoke Extraordinary Powers in order to do this. Temp bans are covered under Special and Emergency Powers. (The contrast here is with things that rangers can do without asking permission, like moving threads and such.)

The argument that can be made, I think, is that a hearing should have been held back in September, and what's been going on since then is a kind of suspended sentence, under the assumption that a jury would have agreed to a temp ban if a jury had been convened. That's not really kosher, but it's too late now to hold a hearing on a ban, and anyway the hearing would be more of an imposition on sf and CG than the ban is.

If I were still serving as a Loremaster here, I think what I would recommend would be to convene an independent review - two rangers and one juror - to just consider whether the ban was justified. That can be done in 24 hours, and makes more sense in terms of mitigating the effect on sf and CG if the independent review decides in their favor.

Holby, you're absolutely right that if Extraordinary Powers have been invoked then an Charter Amendment Committee has to be formed, under the idea that some unanticipated situation has arisen and the Charter should be updated to deal with it. It's probably a good idea to do that anyway, because the additions that Lali made to the Charter should be reviewed by a committee and put to a vote. You could also discuss at leisure, then, how to amend the charter for the kinds of disruptions that actually occur as opposed to the kind we tried to imagine occurring when the charter was written.

edit: good grief, I meant suspended sentence when I wrote suspected sentence

Last edited by Jnyusa on Thu 20 Nov , 2008 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:50 pm
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Thank you. I'll consider this carefully. It may take a while because I'm going to a show tonight (I forgot who's playing so please, no one ask!) but I'm in favor of anything that gets this sorted quickly.

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halplm
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 10:53 pm
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Jnyusa, I'd appreciate your POV on my thread about ad hominem's in the symposium, if you have time (sorry to sidetrack).

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Eruname
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 11:45 pm
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I'm not sure of the best place to post this. I guess this thread is this best. sf sent me a PM over at HoF because he thought I was still the Mayor. Basically he's concerned about halplm discussing and criticising him in a few different places without him able to respond or defend. He's also very concerned about what's being pushed in hal's ad hominum thread as he isn't able to give input on any of that. He doesn't think it fair for anything new to be put into place without him being able to add to the discussion and decision.

I think he has some fair points.

Firstly, I think everyone should stop discussing any member who is not able to defend him or herself. No talking about what he thinks, his motivations are, what he believes, his intentions, etc.

Secondly, I don't think any new posting/debating guidelines should be agreed upon, even informally, until one of the major parties that was involved in bringing about these discussions is able to give input.

I would think that's fair to everyone all around.

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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Thu 20 Nov , 2008 11:55 pm
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That sounds reasonable, Eru. :)

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 12:01 am
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I agree with Eru on this. And have said so before. Neither sf or CG and or the punishment or banning should be discussed without their being able to have input. I find it rather disturbing that either of them being banned without their input is being discussed at all, and it reminds me of something out of the Spanish Inquistion (and not the fun one either).

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 12:15 am
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As far as I have seen, only the technical aspects have been discussed regarding the temp ban. I don't see anyway around that. I don't recall seeing much in the way of warrants of this issue.

And I wouldn't worry about anything getting done too soon around here. I am sure both will be back before the discussion has ended.

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Elian
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 12:49 am
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I like how...being told we shouldn't talk about sf and cg while they aren't here has led to us talking about them even more. :P


Can we get back to what exactly this committee is supposed to be deciding and who's going to be on it, please?

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 12:54 am
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I've split off the discussion regarding posters not here to defend themselves.

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Crucifer
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 1:02 am
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Can I just give my two cents on the temp ban? As a someone who was partially involved in its early stages?

A warning was given of a week-long ban if certain posters couldn't comply with a regulation imposed by the rangers after discussion. The regulation was breached more than once, and more than one subsequent warning, to my knowledge, given. If that's not enough, I don't know what is.

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TheMary
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 1:03 am
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I want on the committee then.

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Crucifer
Post subject: Re: The one week ban on sf and CG
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 1:06 am
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As someone who had input to the original sanction, I would like to be on the committee.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: The one week ban on sf and CG - split again
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 2:16 am
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I have a message from sf who PMed me at HoF because of his inability to access this board. This is his direct message to me. I am not paraphasing or inserting my own thoughts.
sf from a PM wrote:
Mike
could you or somebody please announce in the Business thread on my suspension that I accept it and am NOT appealing or asking for a hearing?

people keep mentioning it like I m fighting it and I most certainly an not.

I knew what I was doing and accept it.

thank
The only line I cut was his name at the bottom. I have no idea if he wants his real name known and think it is on the safe side to cut that one word.

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