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Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:04 am
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No it is my position that is the first thing on the agenda because that is the first happening. A committee is automatic when rangers use extraordinary powers and that happened when you were temp banned. That isn't my choice. That is the way it is.

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Elian
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:04 am
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I'm not 'afraid' of having my actions analyzed either.

Whether I think it's technically called for is another matter.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:05 am
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Well, we've got the two. Now this matter must be shelved until the committee matter is finished.

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:05 am
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FOr the record, that was not permission. It was never intended as permission. That is one of the ways in which I give adults a warning.

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Elian
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:09 am
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CG, you do not, anywhere in this thread or elsewhere, currently have two Rangers stating they believe there is just cause for a hearing against any or all of us. Please don't misrepresent what people have actually said.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:11 am
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How many do you count?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:16 am
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I count two of us explicitly saying we feel we did no wrong and therefor aren't worried about being judged.

I count zero Rangers saying they believe a Hearing is warranted.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:18 am
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Ah. "I do not fear being judged, but I won't say I should be judged."

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:19 am
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It's not the next issue we need to deal with, so I don't think we should be judged right now. :)

edit...as in, officially judged before the other issues Holby mentioned are dealt with.

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Elian
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:35 am
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Quote:
Ah. "I do not fear being judged, but I won't say I should be judged."
Actually, more like "I don't believe I've done anything wrong and therefore being 'judged' would be a waste of time and effort." And I refuse to be goaded into saying otherwise.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 11:33 am
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The fact of the matter is, a member cannot call a hearing without ranger support. In this case where the poster is trying to get a hearing called against all the rangers, I would say that, instead of getting unanimous agreement from the five rangers, he would have to get support from at least five members of the board. Those members would have to be members in good standing - i.e. have never needed mediation with another member, have never had a hearing called against them, have never been confined to the bikeracks and have never been banned. Basically, members who would not have a predetermined bias against the rangers or against CG and would be able to look at the situation objectively.

I don't see anyone supporting a hearing against the rangers.


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halplm
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:14 pm
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I would, but you've made up rules where I don't have a voice... rules with no foundation whatsoever.

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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 12:54 pm
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Pretty sure she made the whole thing up, as it's her opinion on a good way to proceed. :) I think it makes a lot of sense.

And hal, I haven't even seen four other posters (if we were to be counting you as one of the five) agreeing with CG.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 2:36 pm
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Hal, you would support a hearing against the rangers because you have a beef with the rangers. That doesn't make you in the least bit objective.

Keep in mind, I wouldn't be able to be involved in that hearing either, as I, obviously, wouldn't be objective towards CG. You aren't the only one who wouldn't have a voice. I "made up rules" that took my voice away as well.

You and I would both have to suck it up and deal with it. The difference is, I would, whereas you would call yourself a victim.


In the end, there won't be a hearing because there simply isn't a precedent in the charter for it. If CG really wants to get something changed, he should drop the idea of a current hearing against the rangers, and instead try to get an amendment made to the charter where a normal member could, indeed, call for a hearing with support from other members of the board, just as a ranger could call for a hearing with support from the other rangers. Granted, that amendment couldn't be grandfathered, but it would give him the abilities in the future to do what he is ineffectually fighting to do now.


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halplm
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 6:45 pm
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Or, the rangers could just admit the whole idea of banning him for a week was a bad Idea and wrong, and maybe the whole thing could be put behind us. Maybe.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 6:58 pm
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hal, you can't criticize Estel for coming up with an idea here. There is no precedent for this kind of a hearing, so we, as a board, need to find some rules to agree on to proceed.

I do support CG's hearing. So, there is one. I don't think I appear to have any bias against anyone in this case. I've agreed with CG at times, and disagreed with him at times. I also have no beef with any rangers.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 7:40 pm
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As a former Ranger, I absolutely support the temp banning of SF anf CG. I would have done it sooner had I been on active Ranger duty, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 8:43 pm
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Estel wrote:
The fact of the matter is, a member cannot call a hearing without ranger support. In this case where the poster is trying to get a hearing called against all the rangers, I would say that, instead of getting unanimous agreement from the five rangers, he would have to get support from at least five members of the board. Those members would have to be members in good standing - i.e. have never needed mediation with another member, have never had a hearing called against them, have never been confined to the bikeracks and have never been banned. Basically, members who would not have a predetermined bias against the rangers or against CG and would be able to look at the situation objectively.

I don't see anyone supporting a hearing against the rangers.
That's a very interesting idea, but I don't see a whole lot of the members who aren't rangers necessarily knowing that they can voice much of an opinion on this.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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halplm
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 9:00 pm
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Alatar wrote:
As a former Ranger, I absolutely support the temp banning of SF anf CG. I would have done it sooner had I been on active Ranger duty, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Then it's a good thing you weren't as that would certainly be an abuse of your power.

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Request for a hearing about "The Rangers" and myself
Posted: Thu 27 Nov , 2008 9:15 pm
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Your opinion.



Lali

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