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PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 8:45 pm 
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oK, thanks for clarifying.

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 8:48 pm 
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:hug: Yep. I don't want just anyone being able to read what I've written in there either.

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 11:50 pm 
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So as a Ranger do I have to go into ToE?

Never been there.

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Feb , 2009 11:53 pm 
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Really? :scratch: I thought you had.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 12:10 am 
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don't think so

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 12:20 am 
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In the Charter Amendment Committee thread in Bike Racks, we have been trying to discuss the specific by-laws that should be passed. It would definitely be helpful to get more input there so that we can pass the by-laws quickly, although I know that everyone is probably rather tired of this. :blackeye: But as far as I know there was never any intention on anyone's part to get rid of the ToE protections. :scratch: The new Charterlette doesn't change the fact that you need special permissions in order to access ToE, just as you did before.

vison, I think that you can enter ToE if you choose to for Rangering purposes, but you certainly don't have to. There are several other Rangers who had ToE access beforehand so there shouldn't be any reason for you to have to go into ToE. :)


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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 12:45 am 
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You can see ToE vison. You've got admin status and nothing and no one can hide. But whether or not you go in is up to you. I've passed through a few times and they're a rather nice and polite bunch who aren't trying to hurt each other or cause a ruckus (which honestly is all I, in the capacity as a Ranger, ever care about).

Estel, ToE is part of what makes b77 b77 and since things have been running very smoothly on that front there's no reason to change anything about ToE unless the ToE gang want something done. The committee is a bit weary right now but I did offer up some of the by-laws from the original charter for a vote with the language unchanged. The whole ToE article was among them. I fully appreciate why the people who post there don't want it opened and I fully appreciate how important it is to feel safe.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 3:00 am 
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vison, I'm pretty sure there has never been any need for a Ranger to do anything in ToE. I can't see why there would be need now.


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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 3:49 am 

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elfshadow wrote:
But as far as I know there was never any intention on anyone's part to get rid of the ToE protections. :scratch:


It certainly wasn't my intention when I drafted the new Charter. My intention was to find a way to replace over-reliance on unwieldy, ineffective rules with the exercise of common sense. The ToE protections are neither unwieldly, nor ineffective. Common sense would dictate that they continue to be adhered to.


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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 6:05 am 
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I just wondered if a Ranger was supposed to keep tabs on ToE, that's all. I have no clue what a Ranger should do, really. I've read the handbook, but I haven't really absorbed it.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 10:39 am 
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Basically you're a regular poster until someone asks you to do something or you possibly happen on something bad. More than likely another poster will have seen it and contacted you already.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 2:39 pm 

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Eru, that's an extraordinary photograph in your signature. Well done!


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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 2:46 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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Isn't it, though?

vison, when I'm a Ranger I watch certain threads, like "Need to Contact a Ranger," "Ranks," and "Touching Base" (in Forum Management). That way I get an email reminder to check those when there's new activity.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 4:25 pm 
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I also keep on an eye the Symp though I've had a weird term.

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Feb , 2009 4:27 pm 
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No, that's wise. I browse the other forums, but I subscribe to those particular threads so I don't accidentally miss anything there.

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PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb , 2009 5:37 pm 
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vison wrote:
I just wondered if a Ranger was supposed to keep tabs on ToE, that's all. I have no clue what a Ranger should do, really. I've read the handbook, but I haven't really absorbed it.


Well I am pretty sure you may have posted there way back when but I could be wrong. In any case the only reason to post in there would be if there were some type of disruption there or a new member wants to join. Given there is a sufficient number of rangers, I wouldn't think you need to deal with that.

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb , 2009 6:44 pm 
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Vison, you posted there three times (do an advanced search and see for yourself). I lurk there sometimes, but seldom post, so I can keep an eye out if you don't want to. I agree with yov. From what I've seen, it is carefully self policed.

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Feb , 2009 7:25 pm 
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laureanna wrote:
Vison, you posted there three times (do an advanced search and see for yourself). I lurk there sometimes, but seldom post, so I can keep an eye out if you don't want to. I agree with yov. From what I've seen, it is carefully self policed.


I believe I posted there before it became restricted or whatever you call it. I did not have permission to enter it after that.

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PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb , 2009 11:47 pm 
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LalaithUrwen wrote:
Well, there are several articles of the charter that either need more brainpower than I have available at the moment or are moot because of the new charter. So, skipping those, that takes us to Article 6, TOE:

Quote:
Article 6: Age Restricted Forum
Ratified May 30, 2005; June 6, 2005; amended October 25, 2005

¶1: Front Page disclaimer statement

A statement on the front page of the Message Board and on the registration form will state:

“Notice: Adult language is allowed on B77, but generally occurs no more frequently than in real life. We do require that members be at least thirteen years of age before joining. This board also contains an age restricted forum for discussion of topics inappropriate for children. The contents of this forum are not accessible to members who are under the age of eighteen, nor are they immediately accessible to the newest registrants.

All new Board registrations must provide their date of birth and a confirmation email from the member’s registration email address before membership is activated.”

¶2: Forum header description and visibility
The “Thinking of England” forum header will be visible in the index but access is restricted to those who have specific permission to do so. The forum description will state: "Discussion of topics inappropriate for children; not accessible to those under the age of eighteen."

¶3: Eligibility to Access the Age Restricted Forum
A member becomes eligible to access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. After this time, a member can request access to the forum from a Ranger. Access is routinely granted unless the required number of ToE members voice their opposition to the petitioning member gaining access to the forum pursuant to the process outlined in ¶4.

¶4: Amendment Procedure for Denial of Access
In recognition of the special level of trust, sensitivity and comfort required in the Thinking Of England forum as already witnessed by the 3 month / 100 posts rule for eligibility, we propose the following amendment:

When a member requests access to the forum, a Ranger will title an announcement thread in the ToE forum with the petitioning member’s name and will post in it the following three paragraphs of text:

"(Member name) has requested access to this forum. Members have until (10 days from day of announcement) to consider whether they have a reasonable belief that the rules pertaining to posting on the ToE forum are likely to be broken by the petitioner based on past experience either here or elsewhere. Those rules include posting in a manner that ridicules, demeans or threatens other posters, or engaging in provocation or the spreading of sensitive information.

"ToE members who object to the petitioner gaining access should submit a brief explanation by PM to a Ranger or by email to the Administrator account. List of Rangers and Admin. acct. email address A Ranger will send an email acknowledgment to each person who submits an objection to let them know their objection has been received, and will forward a copy of this acknowledgment to a designated ToE member. Once two objections are submitted, a summary of those objections will be posted in this thread and the thread will continue to be updated in this way as more objections are received. Please do not post in this thread; it is intended for official updates only. Members are asked to refrain from publicly discussing the petitioner during the consideration period, as the petitioner is not in a position to respond.

"If at least two objections to the petitioner gaining access are submitted, a poll will be added to the thread approximately halfway (five days) into the objection period; ToE members who believe the petitioner should be denied access based on the objections listed should indicate this by voting in the poll. If 12 members vote to deny access, the petitioner is denied access to the forum for a six-month period, after which time they may reapply. Forum members are trusted to refrain from trying to deny the petitioner access without good reason."

The poll will offer the following options:
- I think the petitioner should be denied access to ToE based on the objections stated in the thread
- This option is only here because a poll requires at least two options

When the 10-day period is over a Ranger will announce in the ToE thread whether the petitioner is granted or denied access and will supply the petitioner with a summary of the objections lodged against them, making every effort to avoid revealing the identity of those objecting. The petitioner's thread will be left up for an additional three days, after which time a Ranger will delete it.

If the number of votes is less than that required to deny access, the petitioner will be granted access to the forum and should announce their arrival in the Welcome thread in the forum, which will be created for this purpose.

Discretionary Exception for Extraordinary Circumstance
If a Ranger receives a communication that a ToE member has had a RL experience of a seriously harmful nature with the petitioner, the veracity of which is supported by at least one other b77 member, the Ranger at their discretion may announce in the petitioner's thread in ToE that such a complaint has been brought and the petitioner has summarily been denied access. The petitioner will be informed that a serious complaint has been lodged and their access denied for the usual 6-month period, and will be advised that subsequent requests for access are likely to meet with the same result. The thread will then be locked and deleted. If it is subsequently determined in a hearing that the accusation was false, the accusing member will be subject to penalties up to and including an immediate ban and always including a minimum two-year ban from the Thinking of England forum.

A committee composed of volunteer ToE posters and Rangers will annually review these procedures to assess their effectiveness and determine if changes need to be made. If changes are required, they will make this known to the board at large and the usual procedure for amending the Charter will be followed.

¶5: Terms of participation in Age Restricted Forum
Before permission is activated, an email with the “Thinking of England” forum sticky note information will be forwarded to the new member, who will be required to agree to the terms of participation in that forum as outlined in that sticky by return email.

Posters, when in the “Thinking of England” forum, must be even more alert to abusive or exploitive behavior (especially taking advantage of another’s emotional vulnerability, youth, or inexperience in adult environments) than in other forums. Posters are encouraged to act on conscience when they witness such behavior and to report any violation of the by-laws to the Rangers.

As a courtesy, new posters to the 'Thinking of England' forum are encouraged to make their arrival known to existing posters in a Courtesy Introduction thread created for this purpose in that forum.

¶6: Legal Compliance
It is the intention of the membership to stay abreast of any changes in the law that would affect their responsibilities toward the public where this forum is concerned.


Do we need to change any of this? I promise to read it later, but I have to run now.



There are three things that I would change.

Firstly:
If a member has had complaints, but through the voting process still gains access to TOE, I would want there to be a five day period between when the Rangers announce that they are allowed access, and when they are actually given access so that those who had complaints can edit/delete their posts before the new poster is allowed into the forum.

If a person has a problem with someone being given access and that person is still given access, it is only fair to allow the person who is uncomfortable to remove any information that they wish from their posts and to PM other members and/or rangers to remove information about themselves from other posters posts, or at least to make that information non-specific rather than pertaining directly to them.



Secondly:
We don't have that many members who post in TOE that much anymore, so I think that the two people to object to cause a thread being started should be changed to one person and the 12 person voting to deny access should be changed to 5 people voting to deny access. I don't know how many people regularily read the forum, but there are only about 6 or 7 who post even somewhat regularily.


Thirdly:
Because there are quite a few posters who have posted in TOE in the past, but may not go there now, if a new member who has had objections about their joining has passed the vote, the Rangers should, at the beginning of the final five day period, sent a PM to all members of the TOE informing them that this has occured. Thus, these posters would have the information in enough time to edit their posts if they feel necessary.


Therefore, the bits pertaining to the time period, number of votes to deny access and Ranger PMs should read as follows (new or changed stuff bolded, stuff staying the same in smaller font):

Quote:
"(Member name) has requested access to this forum. Members have until (10 days from day of announcement) to consider whether they have a reasonable belief that the rules pertaining to posting on the ToE forum are likely to be broken by the petitioner based on past experience either here or elsewhere. Those rules include posting in a manner that ridicules, demeans or threatens other posters, or engaging in provocation or the spreading of sensitive information.

"ToE members who object to the petitioner gaining access... ...as the petitioner is not in a position to respond.


"If one objection to the petitioner gaining access are submitted, a poll will be added to the thread approximately halfway (five days) into the objection period; ToE members who believe the petitioner should be denied access based on the objections listed should indicate this by voting in the poll. If 5 members vote to deny access, the petitioner is denied access to the forum for a six-month period, after which time they may reapply. Forum members are trusted to refrain from trying to deny the petitioner access without good reason."

The poll will offer the following options:
- I think the petitioner should be denied access to ToE based on the objections stated in the thread
- This option is only here because a poll requires at least two options

When the 10-day period is over a Ranger will announce in the ToE thread whether the petitioner is granted or denied access and will supply the petitioner with a summary of the objections lodged against them, making every effort to avoid revealing the identity of those objecting. The petitioner's thread will be left up
for an additional five days, after which time a Ranger will delete it.

If, after 10 days, the number of votes is less than that required to deny access, the current TOE members will be informed of this and will have 5 days to do what they feel they need to do with their own posts and to contact other members and/or Rangers to ask for deletion of poster specific information and/or quotes pertaining directly to them.

Rangers should PM all members of the TOE forum to inform them that a poster who has had objections raised against them joining has passed the vote and will be allowed to join the forum, in order to allow posters who may not be regular posters to the forum to understand what is going on and to take such actions with their own posts as they feel necessary.


After 15 days in total, the petitioner will be granted access to the forum and should announce their arrival in the Welcome thread in the forum, which will be created for this purpose.



This may seem OTT, but there is a LOT of highly personal information in that forum, and posters need to know that they have the time to delete their history there if they feel that someone untrustworthy has become a member.

That's one thing about the TOE forum - it is built on total and complete trust and on a lot of sould baring honesty. That kind of thing needs protection.

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Last edited by Estel on Fri 20 Feb , 2009 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri 20 Feb , 2009 2:27 am 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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Estel, I like those changes a lot. I can think of someone who objected to a person entering ToE, but it was only one person. So my hands were tied (as a Ranger).

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