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 Post subject: 3 month ban on Solicitr
PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 6:56 am 
Triathlete
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I have removed Solicitr to the bike racks for three months. He has no ability to PM at this time. He may post there to exonerate himself, but please do not go there to antagonize him.

As you know, our new Charter states:

Quote:
However, the Rangers are also charged with ensuring that the culture of respect is maintained, in those rare instances where simple member-moderation is not sufficient. Rangers have broad discretion to take whatever actions they deem necessary to accomplish that goal, including but not limited to editing posts, moving posts or threads to the "Bike Racks" forum where disputes are to take place, or, if necessary, restricting members' rights to post in one or more forums.


In this case, SF protested to the Rangers that Solictr sent him a series of highly abusive PMs. What was in those PMs was something that none of us would tolerate in the public forums, and was especially egregious when posted in private.

Though members may think that they are free to abuse other members while cloaked in a "right to privacy", no such right is explicitly extended by our new charter. And as you all have seen from past famous examples, emails are never guaranteed to be private. When you say things in private, by email or PM, that are too ugly to say in public, there is always the chance that someone will leak that PM or email.

I did not give Solicitr a warning, because he has been told many times to back off his attacking style. I was concerned that if I gave him only a warning, he might retaliate in public or private.

I will not repeat all of the PMs. The most recent one was this:

Quote:
Weak, peasant, weak. Typical Leftard response. We can censor you! We rule! This is a logical argument? nobody (in our little 'pinhead clique) likes you' and 'The mods at HoF (who won't tolerate opposing opinions) exercised their power to silence.'

Yes, the rabble always resent their betters.

The fact remains, you are a malignant mental midget who knows nothing about anything, and prove it loudly every day. To call you a clown would insult Barnum and Bailey. No wonder you are such a union booster- without 'em you would never have been allowed to impersonate a teacher for years, even in a system as wretched as Detroit's.

BTW, 'people' implies human beings, which you are not. I certainly have no need to justify my intellect or attainments to such as you; especially since your muddy mind would be unable to comprehend them.

But have no fear: even though in general I'm inclined to make allowances for the mentally handicapped, when we take our country back from the Ogabe regime I will see to it that you are one of the first against the wall.


The only reason I did not ban Solicitr outright is that I have only SF's word that Solicitr actually wrote these PMs. Rangers do not have the ability to look through private messages. The only way I would be able to verify that people have actually received unacceptable PMs is if the people abused allowed me (and the other rangers) to log on as them with their passwords and look through their private messages.

Once it has been determined what actually happened, outright banning may be warranted.

Solicitr is reminded that:
Quote:
Any member who is restricted from posting in one or more forum for longer than two weeks time can request that the action be ratified or rejected by a vote of the whole membership, with a simple majority prevailing.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 8:50 am 
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laureanna wrote:
I have removed Solicitr to the bike racks for three months. He has no ability to PM at this time.


Yes, baby!

Quote:
The only reason I did not ban Solicitr outright is that I have only SF's word that Solicitr actually wrote these PMs. [...]

Once it has been determined what actually happened, outright banning may be warranted.


Oh yes.


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 12:12 pm 
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I do agree.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 2:30 pm 
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I agree.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 2:47 pm 
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Yes I agree. We have to have standards of behaviour and discourse in public and private. Conversations like that will drag us into the gutter. Thanks laureanna.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 3:07 pm 
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Between taxes, 10-12 hour work days, moving in 9,000 pounds of household goods to a new place, and banning people, I have my hands full. Would someone else determine if Solicitr has the ability to start his own thread in the Bike Racks, and if he doesn't, start one for him. Then please play nice till I get back. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 3:26 pm 
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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I've opened a thread.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 9:14 pm 
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While I don't doubt soli did this, shouldn't there be evidence of it before we ban people?


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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 9:39 pm 
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Well, there is evidence of a sort. If solictr claims he didn't write that then we must weigh the evidence and come to a conclusion.

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PostPosted: Wed 15 Apr , 2009 9:41 pm 
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He's in the Bike Racks. That's not quite banned. He can speak and demand a poll if he chooses.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:34 am 
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Yup, that's why I took the actions the way I did.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 2:49 pm 
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If I received a vitriolic, abusive PM, I would report it immediately and expect the Rangers to take immediate action.

Abuse through PM is a banning offence, IMO, and I think the correct course of action has been taken here.

(By the way, I did not realise that Rangers here do not have the facility to read people's PMs ... which is something I approve of, btw. I do think people's PMs should be private!)

But if you send someone an abusive PM, I also think you should expect to take the consequences and not be surprised if they report you.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 2:52 pm 
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I agree in principle - however, where is the burden of proof?

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 2:56 pm 
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Yeah, I thought of that as soon as I hit the 'submit' button, Jude. :blackeye:

It is, after all, one poster's word against another's. :suspicious:

It does seem hard to get a balance right between protecting posters from abusive behaviour and not invading people's privacy.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:04 pm 
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I'd hope sf would give the Rangers access to his PMs as banning someone for 3 months is a big deal. It's best to have proof.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:07 pm 
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according to SF, solicitr wrote:
But have no fear: even though in general I'm inclined to make allowances for the mentally handicapped, when we take our country back from the Ogabe regime I will see to it that you are one of the first against the wall.


Excuse me, but is this not a direct threat on SF’s life? If this is not justification for a permanent ban (if not legal action) I don’t know what is.

Jude wrote:
I agree in principle - however, where is the burden of proof?


The burden of proof is on SF here. He needs to allow the Rangers access to his account so they can see the PM’s themselves. He doesn’t even have to give them his password - they can change the password themselves and then let him change it back after they have looked at the PM’s.

If they determine the accusations are legitimate, this person should have every trace of their existence wiped clean from this board without further discussion.

IMO.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:14 pm 
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Erunáme wrote:
I'd hope sf would give the Rangers access to his PMs as banning someone for 3 months is a big deal. It's best to have proof.


Eru, you're absolutely right.

If I were in sf's shoes, I would give the Rangers full permission to do that. He should also allow them to view the PMs that he sent.

tinwë wrote:
The burden of proof is on SF here. He needs to allow the Rangers access to his account so they can see the PM’s themselves. He doesn’t even have to give them his password - they can change the password themselves and then let him change it back after they have looked at the PM’s.


This of course should include the PMs that sf himself has sent, as I say above.

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Last edited by Di of Long Cleeve on Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:28 pm 
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Perhaps. One could make the argument that he was provoked, however, regardless of how much he may or may not have been provoked, the comments in that quote crossed a line and should be dealt with in the sternest possible manner.

Solicitr has the ability to refute these claims himself, and if he has received threatening PM’s from SF he can also allow access to his account to prove it. I see no reason for SF to have to defend himself until any charges are made against him by solicitr. If he has, however, made similar threats, then he too should be permanently banned.

PS - Di, would you mind editting the tag in the second quote in your post. I don't want any of that man's words attributed to my name. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:31 pm 
Frodo's girl through and through
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tinwë wrote:
Perhaps. One could make the argument that he was provoked, however, regardless of how much he may or may not have been provoked, the comments in that quote crossed a line and should be dealt with in the sternest possible manner.


Oh, I totally agree.

Quote:
Solicitr has the ability to refute these claims himself, and if he has received threatening PM’s from SF he can also allow access to his account to prove it. I see no reason for SF to have to defend himself until any charges are made against him by solicitr. If he has, however, made similar threats, then he too should be permanently banned.


Agree again.

Quote:
PS - Di, would you mind editting the tag in the second quote in your post. I don't want any of that man's words attributed to my name. Thanks.


Done. :cool: I think I edited it before you asked me to edit it, in fact. :blackeye: :)

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 3:37 pm 
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I am happy to allow the Ranger free and total access to my PM account. Just let me know what I have to do and I will be happy to do it.

And I have also sent my replies -to Solicitr- to the Ranger who requested them before this action was taken here. I sent the full exchange of the most recent episode include the one from Solicit that started it, my reply to him, and the subsequent exchanges. Nothing was withheld or edited by me.


Truthfully I do not mind a bit of vitriol or playful insults and can play that game as needed --- thats no big deal to me --- but its the threat that I wanted to have looked at. It was never about anything but the threat.

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