board77

Might not be the intention, but the intention is rarely what happens.

I know that too well. We set out to have a democratic place with freedom of speech here, and all of us have the best intentions, but sometimes conflicts happen. Like now. I still firmly believe that misunderstandings are at the root of most conflicts, and this isn't different.

M00bies on TORC had a special atmosphere, which most of the regulars loved and which others didn't understand, and in many cases didn't like either. It's difficult to explain what made it so great. I see something similar in Manwe too, where I'm just an onlooker. Maybe it's the way I am, but I don't feel excluded by those cliques, and if I do, it doesn't bother me greatly (I used to think that most Talkers were cliquey, but as I said, not being part of me didn't bother me much). So maybe I just can't understand it when people get upset over the "exclusivity" of M00bies, because I don't see it.

However, B77 is already a big clique, and we're all part of it (and we get new members every day). I don't see the need for subgroups within B77, but we get them, as different fora, as a way to channel discussion into topics and areas. In that regard, m00bies ex-pats will only need to discuss LotR in B77's Movies forum. The sense of community will come from being in an already small(ish) place, B77, where most people already know each other, or at least of each other, and is interested in what everyone else has to say. I see a lot of mingling going on in B77 and it makes me happy, just as much as the "homebase" threads sprouting up, like the Orphanage in the Turf. Some people develop closer ties with others, and will post in the same places. Others are more "general" and will drop a few lines everywhere. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Estel, I'm very distressed that you think that the intention here is to exclude people. It is not. If you read what you call the "cliquish" threads in Movies you would see that while some posters appear continually, people come and go all the time. People who want to join in are welcomed, and those who choose to stay become fixtures (Sass is a recent example). The "in-jokes" generally run for about a page and a half before they're replaced by something else, just as in any chatty thread.

Estel wrote:

Hey, you know what? Why not start a poll about it in business.

"We would like to have a m00bies forum, yada yada - vote yes, no, or I don't care - discuss"

My question is, do you want a seperate forum to talk about the films, or do you want a seperate forum so you can start your own chat threads there, like you have on TORC, and have your own little island, with your own little in-jokes, and your own little friends that you brought over from TORC, easily being able to ignore those that weren't in that group, even though that may not be your intention.

I was wrong to suggest a new forum. Ber and Holby set me right. All I was after (me, I speak only for myself) was a place where, yes, we could discuss movie-related topics if we wished, and where those of use who know (or knew) each other well on Movies could be fairly sure of bumping into each other on a daily basis. Because we are friends. But as I have said, new people come into that group on TORC all the time--here, everyone on B77 would be welcomed.

Those who choose to stand outside a wide-open door and complain that they're being excluded are being controlled by their own expectations, not by anyone's actual behavior.

Estel wrote:

Sorry about the sarcasm, but it stinks to me. I'm just barely getting to know some of you now, and I'm really enjoying it. You create your own little "TORC LotR m00bies, part II" and anyone who was enjoying talking to you here that wasn't originally part of that group, isn't going to feel welcome in it here either.

You are predicting something that doesn't happen. If you walk into a public room where a conversation is going on, you may have to listen for a bit to figure out what the subject is--is that what you have a problem with? There is certainly no fear that you would be ignored if you posted there. But you seem so sure you'd be rudely dismissed that you'd be unwilling to try.

If various Movies people here are so worth talking to, why are we any less so in a group?

And why would this end people's participation elsewhere? It certainly wouldn't end mine.

Estel wrote:

So what's the difference? Here you get to swear and be more sarcastic and fun than on TORC, but you won't be bothering to get to know new people. Just the same old group with some new words. What gets me the most, is that most of you still do post on TORC in m00bies. Do you have to have your group in both places? Is it that hard to get to know new people?

Of course not. But why should we give up our old friendships in either place? It doesn't keep us from forming new ones. (And it isn't true that most of us still post a lot on TORC. Nor do I feel sure that TORC Movies will last much longer--a crackdown on topicality would scatter people to the four winds.)

Estel wrote:

And this reaction isn't "shooting the idea down" - it's being hurt that the idea is even considered necessary. I don't have a home here either, but I don't feel the need to start up a whole new forum for me and my friends. Hell, I'm gaining new friends so fast on this board, it wouldn't work anyway.

Funny, it wasn't until today and seeing this thread that I thought there was a difference between all the posters here. Now I understand - so sorry for the confusion. m00bs are m00bs everywhere, no exceptions.

But hey, start up a thread in business - I'm 100% certain that a new forum for you would get the majority of the votes. I mean, with all the new invites coming in who are m00bies, and large number of you already here, all the rest of us can do is scratch at the door and ask if we can be your friends as well.

It's a B77 forum. Your place as much as anyone's. Why not wait and see what happens?

Exclusion is not the point. A chance to bump into old friends, while making new ones, in a few threads with a familiar flavor--what is so wrong with that? Some people from Talk have that already; so do some RPers. Why can't Movies people gather anywhere without causing agonies of hurt?

Prim, just use The Turf. There are chat threads already that are escapees from TORC, a few mOOnies hang on's will not make much differece.

But I do know what Estel means. It is a bit of a shock at times to see m00bies written everywhere agin. I was tempted to ask if that could be our first banned word but, I am not sure that will help.

Oh, and it may be better if some kindly admin could move that chat thread over to The Turf. Hey, there may be more posters

Which chat thread? The one Prim started in the movies forum?
Why? There's a social thread too in the Symposium (the Diner). I can't see why Prim's thread can't stay where it is.

Getting more posters is not the aim of that thread, as I see it; it's to welcome anyone wandering into the movies section. And besides, the Turf is already overcrowded.

I would like to see that chat thread in the Movies section nucleate more serious discussions there--more traffic is more people to notice new threads, participate in them, start new ones, etc. I think it might work that way if it's allowed to stay.

Chatting there doesn't mean I'll stop posting in Jn's Diner thread or in any thread that interests me, anywhere.

All of this is intended for everyone, honest to God.

Quote:

It's a B77 forum. Your place as much as anyone's. Why not wait and see what happens?

That was pretty much my point. Why not wait and see what happens before trying to split everything up.

My whole post wasn't about me, or how I feel about the m00bies forum. Whenever I've posted there, there has been no problem (though, that may have a lot to do with me being with Lidless). I'm not sitting here trying to say "accept me, accept me!" - I'm trying to point out, that replicating what you had in TORC movies here makes it seem as though you're not actually interesting in being a part of b77 as a whole, but that you merely want to have a place that's going to stay alive that you can keep in touch with your friends.

Well, I'm sorry, this is a small board, and it was intended to be a whole community. Yes, people have homebase threads, but to have a homebase forum? Why split up something so small just to keep it familiar? I'm tired of having these differentians between people. On TORC, I posted in Books, Books (other), Alliances&Guilds, the Scriptorium, I RPed and sometimes posted in movies and philosphy, yet there I was labeled a Talk Spammer.

Here, I am none of those things.

Yes, those splits will happen here in time as we grow, but why pre-empt it?




On a side note: This is one of my favorite things about this board. We have these discussions, we all make the decisions for the board, and no one (I hope) gets angry.

Perhaps I should split this thread, however, so it can get back on topic? Move this second half over to the Turf or the Business forum? Whatcha think?

Fine with me to split the thread.

Estel, I've already said that asking for a forum (and I am the only one who brought it up) was a mistake. I apologize. It was the wrong idea. No one is asking for a separate forum, and there is no need to argue against it unless someone does propose it.

I don't think Movies-related threads are unreasonable or exclusive. In one of my earlier posts I compared being here, for Movies types, to being at a great convention full of interesting people in a hotel where you don't have a room. I don't mean Movies should have their own convention; I just mean, why can't there be a familiar place, a home base, where a former Movies type can stop in with the hope of encountering an old friend?

This doesn't mean the door is shut and locked. It's just like a room at a convention hotel, where a few people who know each other have a bar set up in the corner and can wander in and out at will. As can anyone.

The reason I felt this was necessary (and again, I am just me here, not the Oracle of Movies) is that if posters from Movies don't find a place like that here, as a home thread of sorts, at least some of those who can will simply go back to posting primarily on TORC, where there already are threads like that. They'll be lost to this place entirely, and to those who for whatever reason no longer post on TORC.

I know you don't want that, Estel.

No, and I never said I had a problem with homebase type threads - everybody has those. It was the forum thing I had an issue with, and if that discussion has ended, then I don't have an issue with anything.


oh, and Eru thanks for splitting the thread I hate to think what kind of chaos would've ensued if I had attempted it

Isn't it obvious that the m00bs who came here have already settled in various places? Like TLE once said, "On TORC I was a m00bie. Here I am a b77er" (just allow me to quote without seeking out the post from under hundreds of posts, we're not yet in that situation that "Text Search!" is the War Cry of the fora).

OK, I avoid the RP-Forum, but only because I fear it might be contagious.

Estel--what? You don't have an issue any more? <dejectedly puts away nunchakas>

Mummpizz, yes, a lot of Movies people have found places to settle here. Although--not all. I feel quite welcome everywhere--that isn't at all the issue--but I'm used to having a home thread, and I haven't found quite what I'm missing here. I think others might agree.

Also, more Movies people are coming every day, and it seemed reasonable to have a familiar place waiting for them. This board is getting big, and it isn't as easy to insinuate oneself into all the ongoing threads as it might have been two months ago. A more familiar-seeming place to drop in, say hi to long-absent friends, ask questions, and maybe be greeted by some board members they didn't previously know--all that seems like a good thing to me.

Not everyone will stay there as a "home"; some don't need it, and some will find other homes they like better. And maybe some who were not Movies posters on TORC will giive it a try and like it.

Well, for those, I say, the "Vidistisne" Forum is developing celeriter.

ducks from thrown carpet slipper

People what can talk furrin ought not to rub it in the faces of them as is normal.

<throws other slipper>

Don't make me invoke one of Jny's dispute resolution scenarios, you two!

<throws third slipper (ha, gotcha!) at Ethel>

Primula_Baggins wrote:

<throws third slipper (ha, gotcha!) at Ethel>

How many feet do you have, woman?

Hey! No asking for personal inf--

Ooops.

I'll have to settle for taking the Fifth.

Actually, I don't want an LotR Movie forum here. Much prefer to do discussion of LotR in the Vidistisne Forum. Because .... just because.

I started a "Calling all M00bies" thread in Turf awhile back, so the people from other parts of Torc could get to know the M00bies coming in. There are a whole bunch of us all at once. But members quickly asked if it couldn't be a place where all of us could post and introduce ourselves .... and that's going on in lots of threads, of course, in the Turf and the Welcome forum. There's a different dynamic on B77 and I'd sort of like to see how it evolves.

I think that threads in the movie forum that's already here would be the way to begin. We really need to build content in all the forums so that people will remain engaged with the discussions.

Sorry if this sounds terse compared to my usual blah-blah-blah. I've been unusually busy with work recently and when I get online at night now I'm really tired.

Jn

Jn

Jn, I believe we've all arrived at that view. There already is a new thread or two in the movie forum. It will be fun to see what happens.

(Sorry you're tired!)