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crystal_seed
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Posted: Wed 19 Jan , 2005 3:20 pm
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Leoba wrote:

I don't think it's a good idea to have a specific forum where we can go to talk about TORC or TORCers in a disparaging fashion. It would seem to me that to do so would be an invitation to bitch. And that - unless I am very much mistaken - is not something we wish to see develop here any more that that which we've put behind us.
I must strongly agree, as the very nature will cause some people to feel uncomfortable, those who are here, who have been invited after the petition, or in the future those who haven't the slightest shimmer of an idea what the problem was in the first place.... I keep hearing... 'moving away from'.... 'evolving'.... and quite frankly as others have pointed out... this board - B77 - is its own. Why bring up what goes on in another board? (I realize many of us here still post on 'the OTHER' board, and so may happen to see things that disturb us when certain people write baiting thread.. but we have this board here, it is a good place, please don't let it break down because of baiting trollish posts on ANOTHER BOARD!- let them handle their own problems. Linking to them only add fuel to the fire that would most likely fizzle for the few that would really know what it is about anyway). Back to the point.... a forum for B & M, might get you just that.... and remember... where there's a lot of BM, usually it causes a stink, and someone ends up having to muck it out :shock: :sick:
Leoba wrote:

Certainly, TORC may be an issue for some time to come, but one that I hope will lessen in time. If people are hurting they may need to share their feelings.

As I have stated before in Impy's Howdy thread... I had my own reasons for keeping away from all that was going on, petition, TORC problems, etc... I am sadden that some of the wonderful people I have gotten to know and meet personally through TORC have been hurt in all this. Might I add too, that yes, perhaps it is a 'tighter reigned' board- but all in all, there are some really super people there- where I had the privilege to meet you lot. You do need time to heal, and to talk about the hurts- can this be done in a way that is constructive and not destructive?- I think so, I think this board is proof positive of that, but bringing back in things that 'attempt' to bring you down is not constructive.
For example- what Leoba mentions here
Leoba wrote:

The lesson we need to learn from the last day or so is that we don't do ourselves any favours by responding to trolling or by getting irate when said troll roars and spits a bit. We also don't do ourselves any favours by casting about comments such as "X is a bitch", when we could so much more eloquently say that we were hurt by something they said or that we felt they were way out of line.
and Leoba my dear..... :hug:
Leoba wrote:
I feel like such a nag for even pointing out our own code of conduct, but the key is 'respect for others'. Even if they don't always extend the same courtesy to us.

you are definitely NOT a nag, but a true gem. :sunny: :mrgreen:

And Din- :hug: to you too, for taking on the tough job and the headache or as you mentioned in the other thread of Ethels- the pain in the derierre that it can cause at times. I just want to encourage you and the other Mod's- Griff and Eru for the good work you are doing on and for this board. As a missionary friend of ours once said ' It's a shit job. Somebody's gotta do it, it might as well be me'- (in this case... you three :wink: )

And Berhael (you snuck in a post whilst I was composing....:) ):hug: just because, and hope you will feel better soon. Thanks again for what you wrote on TORC. Balance will come with time... hurt and grief always take time to heal.

(now hopefully my babbling point came out somewhat discernable- the things I wanted to say before, but perhaps that came out not entirely as I had intented because of how I was feeling at the time.... :oops: ) :)

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Eruname
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Posted: Wed 19 Jan , 2005 7:30 pm
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Many thanks for that crys :hug:

I can say that I don't want a separate TORC ranting forum. At first I was concerned about where we'd go to do that sort of thing, but after yesterday's fiasco, I just want to be done with it all. Right now I'm feeling like I don't want to discuss it.

Of course we started this place to discuss the petition and all that crap, but lately this has just been a message board for friends. I like it that way much better. I just want to come here and have a good time...get away from the conflict. Having a separate bitching forum wouldn't really achieve that goal.


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Nin
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Posted: Wed 19 Jan , 2005 8:27 pm
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Maybe for me it is easier as for others, as more than a month after my departure from TORC, I have really cut bridges in some way.

So - no for a TORC discussion forum, and yes for deleting what has been. I don't want to carry the conflicts and hurts from TORC over here, I left TORC to leave them behind and I have at the present point no desire to come back. Of course, this is only a personnal choice, but when I see the posts and emotions of some here - like Berhael yesterday - I regret that so much time and energy of so interesting and honest people is taken by useless argumentation instead of creative and constructive progress.

I regret for yesterday, and in general do not post any more in any of the TORC threads - if we want this board to move forward, it depends only on us, so I think my contribution is not to feed this particular aspect.

Admins... if the job is getting too much... yell for more people...

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Rholarowyn
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Posted: Fri 21 Jan , 2005 7:14 am
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I was wondering what you all thought about having a Hobby and Interest Forum?

Right off the top of my head I can think of three threads that would fit in a forum with this intent. The cooking thread, the archery thread, and the reenactment/SCA thread.

I also recently contacted Alandriel about a topic that she quite knowledgable on and something I want to learn more about. I'm not sure there is a general interest in the topic, but I do think that if there was, it could also fit into this catagory.

Yes? No? Maybe?

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Rholarowyn
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Posted: Sat 22 Jan , 2005 6:01 am
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Wow it's almost been 24 hours and my post has not received one reply. Does this qualify me for the "Crash and Burn" Award for having one of the worst ideas yet for the boards? ;) :)

*Rho wonders if it's a bit too late to edit out the post and pretend she never posted it* :whistle:

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Eruname
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Posted: Sat 22 Jan , 2005 7:13 am
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I read your post Rho. Just know that it's been noticed. :)


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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Sat 22 Jan , 2005 10:30 am
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I've read it too Rho... was just pondering :wink:

And after pondering I think it's still early days for yet another new forum. How's it we run these kind of threads for a while in The Turf.. and see how it goes. If there are many - well, then they'll deserve their own place. If it's only say a handful... I think they would find a wider 'accidential' audience in the Turf.

What you think?
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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 22 Jan , 2005 8:44 pm
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Is there anything that isn't going on here yet that any of you really want to see?

In other words, instead of trying to come up with ideas to fill an imagined gap, ask around and see what people are nostaligiac for ...

Jn

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satch
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Posted: Sun 23 Jan , 2005 12:25 am
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Wouldn't it just be easier to add forums when they're wanted/needed, rather than adding them now in anticipation of what people will want...

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Fri 04 Mar , 2005 4:28 pm
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This thread will need a major update and I hope I can do so after the weekend. If someone else has time for it - go for it :)

Please read the important Announcement at the top of this forum before proceeding with the discussion what new forums might be needed, why and how.

Making this into a sticky.

Thank you :)
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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 05 Mar , 2005 1:27 am
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In the thread where we are discussion the powers of the Admins, Truehobbit has raised a questions regarding how we should decide whether or not to create a new forum.

I think this thread is a good place to discuss that.

• Must a new forum be voted on?
• Can we have a discussion thread, and when the discussion dies down the admins ascertain the consensus and follow it?
• What constitutes consensus in this case? How strong does opposition be in order for us to need a vote? - or should that be at the discretion of the admins?

Jn

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sat 05 Mar , 2005 1:38 am
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Is it possible to have a structure in which admins can create forums when necessary, but there can also be grass-roots votes to do so? So a vote is not required to create a forum, but a vote can require a forum to be created.

I honestly don't envision this happening, but otherwise admins do all the proposing and disposing.

As for admins creating forums as administrative decisions, I see nothing wrong with that. If no one objects to the forum, a great deal of time has been saved. If people do object, they'll be heard, the matter will be discussed, and a vote can happen then. Not everything needs to be discussed each time it happens!

What's the phrase you used, Jn-- "governance by objection"? That seems like a good model for us, at least now. It lets things get done.

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laureanna
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Posted: Sat 05 Mar , 2005 3:24 am
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Rholarowyn wrote:
I was wondering what you all thought about having a Hobby and Interest Forum?

Right off the top of my head I can think of three threads that would fit in a forum with this intent. The cooking thread, the archery thread, and the reenactment/SCA thread.
There seem to be several types of threads
-The short term interest thread - talk about something specific and then be thru with it.
-The long conversation thread with a continuously morphing subject or no descernable subject.
-The long conversation thread vaguely tied to a subject.
-The long recurring interest thread, like you are describing.

It's hard to know if your thread is going to be a long one or fizzle after three posts.

I like the idea of keeping them all in one forum, rather than having to search thru several forums to find threads that don't know which type they belong to, yet.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sat 05 Mar , 2005 9:44 pm
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Ah, found the thread. :D

Jny, thanks for raising the question. :)

In response to the questions
Quote:
• Must a new forum be voted on?
• Can we have a discussion thread, and when the discussion dies down the admins ascertain the consensus and follow it?
• What constitutes consensus in this case? How strong does opposition be in order for us to need a vote? - or should that be at the discretion of the admins?
and to Prim's post above (reposted from the "admin powers" thread, slightly abridged):

Governance through objection IMO means giving people the opportunity to object before facts are created.
This requires, if not a formal voting procedure, at least a timely announcement of what's intended to be done.
Creating facts first and then waiting for people to object is counter-productive, I think.
If, say, a forum is created and someone really doesn't like it - this puts them into an awkward situation about objecting - the effect of this procedure is basically putting people off from raising objections in the first place.
That's why creating facts is a popular means of bureaucracy to forestall objection - you go ahead and do something, so people will be confronted with the results, if you know something you plan is going to raise protest if you ask beforehand.

Plus, if an objection is raised, it puts the admin into an even more awkward situation of maybe having to go back on what they've done.

Much easier IMO to ask first if people want something and then go ahead and do it if no one objects - that's what governance by objection is all about, I think.

Please also remember that we are going to have a whole new set of admin each three or four months! This means 12 different admins a year!
Say, each of them as an idea for a new forum, for a change in the smilies etc - the board might look different each week, if changing the design of the boards was a normal part of admin power.

I think everything concerning the layout and design of the forum should not belong to admin powers to decide on, for two reasons:

- admins change frequently. If we don't want surprises from an admin playing around with the board, we should not give them the liberty to change things without at least announcing the intention and waiting for feedback.

- it's just part of my basic principle for a democratic board that admin powers are limited to regular processes and emergency situations.
Regular processes, for example, are approving new members, locking and deleting invite threads.
Emergencies are getting rid of trolls and spammers.
There's no way in which I can see the creation of a new forum as either a regular process or an emergency need.

~~~~~~~~~~~

So, again in response to the question Jny posted:

I don't think there needs to be a formal vote, but an announcement offering a discussion should be had before any non-emergency action is taken, I think.
If no one takes up the discussion, fine. That means everybody agrees.

And, yes, if the discussion dies down, the admins just draw the conclusion from what's been said. If there's been no post for two or three days, or the thread osgiliates into chat, an admin could just say: 'ok, the way I see it we have an agreement, and the agreement is this and that - any objections?' If there aren't, for a day or two, go ahead and act on the agreement.

I know that takes time - but as I've said pretty often now, time is not an issue for me, so maybe if there's strong feelings to the contrary about that, we could discuss that?

Good point about how much objection would have to be cause to rethink. Normally I'd be for taking each objection seriously, but I don't think each objection should result in a formal vote. The admin should address the problems of the poster who objects, to see if they are serious, because there's also the problem of someone raising objections just to be a hindrance. Not sure if that should change my views, though - I would hope that talking to the person could settle that.

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Sun 06 Mar , 2005 4:13 am
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I think the Admins should be able to make new forums whenever they want. I don't see why they would bother, though, unless someone had asked them too. If people use the forum, then it was needed. If they don't, then the new forum wasn't needed. Either way, I see no reason to restrict the power of the Admins in creating forums.

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Estel
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 5:14 pm
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I'm just gonna add a poll to the thread about this subject, and make that thread a sticky. Everyone seems to have their own, very strong opinons about this, so lets just put it to a vote, let the vote run till April 1, and stick to the results of that poll.

will add linky to thread later on when my hands aren't sticky from pizza ;)


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