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Indecent Indecency

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Guruthostirn
Post subject: Indecent Indecency
Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 8:40 pm
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Ok, this is partly a rant...about people who feel they have the right to inflict on others their own personal views.

Currently here in the U.S. there're efforts to radically strengthen the indecency rules for broadcasters. The really annoying bit of this is that the people who are trying to do this seem to think that their personal beliefs should apply to everyone. No one should be watching things they see as being bad. It doesn't matter that they are going after things they themselves may never watch. It is nothing more than inflicting one's personal beliefs on other people.

The thing that doesn't upset me is increasing fines wildly. I would be perfectly fine with that...because that is enforcement of the current standards. If I may be crude enough to mention the Janet Jackson incident, of course that should be nailed pretty hard....because it violated rules which are generally considered alright. Basically, increasing fines are enforcing laws. However, what is going on right now is changing laws. A similar case would be if the government decided to make the speed limits no higher than 35 mph, even on freeways, because they believe that if senior citizens feel uncomfortable driving over 35, that's a good point to cut things off.

I'm not really saying things clearly...basically, I'm just annoyed as hell that the government is again trying to make me follow their version of morality. To me, it's as bad as requiring church membership for voting...

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 8:45 pm
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As a wannabe Libertarian, my natural inclination is to tell the FCC to go straight to hell and never come back. I hate them and what they stand for.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 8:49 pm
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It's a nice trick: say you're supporting community standards, while excluding everyone who might disagree from the definition of community.

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:06 pm
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Hell it worked for the Nazi's...should work for the (and god bless this board) fucking right wing conservative christian coalition....wing nuts that they are...

excuse my language, and throw me a fine....

My question is when are the American People going to pull their collective heads out their asses and realize that freedom of speech needs to be protected.

I would much rather be my own editor and my own monitor than have some uptight :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: :rage: freak wad christian coalition tell me what I can or can't watch or say or write or think. And I am mad that the American people let this crap continue.

IMO, and its not Humble, I think this crap of a moral minority taking away the freedom of speech is wrong and un-american to the highest degree, and I don't really give a flip if God is pissed off at me or not (I dont think he is, I think he would rather I have ther freedom to choose to fuck up or be good, instead of being forced to be good, but then again its probably not the same God and I am not considered a Christian by most of the standards).

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:18 pm
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Errr, mentioning the Nazis....bah. Doesn't belong in debate when the comparison is far from the same.

As to the topic, we had one about this in Manwe. The FCC apparently is or was trying to enforce fines for satelite and premium cable channels. This is where the problem comes in. With enforcing or increasing fines for FM, AM and public cable, there is little you can except rant and rave about how the FCC is a bunch of tightwad assholes (which they are for the most part). The Janet Jackson boob incident is a good example.

The problem is with that story about trying to regulate subscription services where the viewer already has an idea of what they are subscribing to even before they get to view or listen to the content.
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(I dont think he is, I think he would rather I have ther freedom to choose to fuck up or be good, instead of being forced to be good, but then again its probably not the same God and I am not considered a Christian by most of the standards).
This reminds me of: I'd rather laugh with the sinners than die with the saints. Me too.

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halplm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:20 pm
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Hmm, I resent the implication that everyone on the "religious right" would prefer their views be held by everyone and they all want to pass laws to force them.

I'm not familiar with the laws we're discussing right now, but in case you missed the last election, that "right" part of the country is actually the majority, so claiming it's the minority, so they shouldn't pull the strings is actually incorrect.

That said, I think freedom of speech is extraordinarily important, and find it ironic that people that are the most adament about it are also the ones that try and suppress it in people they don't like (no, you can't say GOD in schools!).

There are so many hypocrits in politics, be they government, church, community, or at work... THAT bugs me more than anything else (not saying so about anyone here).

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:40 pm
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No on expects the Spanish Inquisition

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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:40 pm
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Not everyone in the RR, halplm.

Just theones who are drunk on their own delusions of omnipotence--the ones who think that religion has any business in government.

It doesn't, and it doesn't matter what the religion in question is. No religion survives the control of government uncorrupted, and vice versa.

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:42 pm
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halplm wrote:
Hmm, I resent the implication that everyone on the "religious right" would prefer their views be held by everyone and they all want to pass laws to force them.
I don't think it's that everyone on the right wants to impose their morality on everyone. It's that everyone that wants to impose their morality on others is on the religious right.

Of course, Dems do that too under a different name by trying to force everyone to be charitable by taxing for welfare and such...
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find it ironic that people that are the most adament about it are also the ones that try and suppress it in people they don't like (no, you can't say GOD in schools!).
That's a hell of a strawman. You should know better then that.


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halplm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:44 pm
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And believe me when I say that I have much the same opinion of THAT group of religious people.

EDIT: Yovargas, it's less of a strawman than I wish it were. There are seriously people that would make it illegal to have religious discussion on schools. This is the anti-religious LEFT for lack of a better pigeon-hole.

Last edited by halplm on Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:47 pm
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It's not so much whether they're a minority or not, Hal--it's the principle of trying to dictate what people may see in entertainment that is not publicly and freely broadcast and that they choose and pay for themselves.

(And you can, too, say "God" in the schools--one of my sons just finished a long, very thorough unit on religion in world history and culture at his public high school. Yes, there are instances of suppression of speech on the left, political correctness included, but a glance at any of the many lists of banned books in this country makes clear what the agenda of most such people is.)


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halplm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:50 pm
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Primula_Baggins wrote:
It's not so much whether they're a minority or not, Hal--it's the principle of trying to dictate what people may see in entertainment that is not publicly and freely broadcast and that they choose and pay for themselves.

(And you can, too, say "God" in the schools--one of my sons just finished a long, very thorough unit on religion in world history and culture at his public high school. Yes, there are instances of suppression of speech on the left, political correctness included, but a glance at any of the many lists of banned books in this country makes clear what the agenda of most such people is.)
I wasn't saying you can't say God in schools, I'm saying there are people that wish that were the case. All the attacks on the pledge of allegiance, prayer in schools, etc...

Of course, I grew up in quite possibly the most liberal area of California (yes a BLUE state), where you could get seriously ragged on by faculty and students for being conservative or Christian... so my view might be a little warped ;)

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 9:53 pm
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halplm wrote:
All the attacks on the pledge of allegiance, prayer in schools, etc...
I find the idea of a pledge of allegiance really frightening. Is it just me? :scratch

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halplm
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:05 pm
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Pippin4242 wrote:
halplm wrote:
All the attacks on the pledge of allegiance, prayer in schools, etc...
I find the idea of a pledge of allegiance really frightening. Is it just me? :scratch

*~Pips~*
I understand how you might find it frightening. However, I don't think it's a pledge that anyone should feel afraid to make.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
and to the republic, for which it stands;
one nation, under God,
with liberty and justice for all."

All you are saying is that you pledge your allegiance to a nation united and providing liberty and justice to all.

How is that at all bad?

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:08 pm
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Principally, the idea of small children being taught to swear allegiance to anything.

Secondly, the God part. What if you're a Hindu? Or an atheist? I thought the government was meant to be secular!

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:25 pm
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Quote:
Principally, the idea of small children being taught to swear allegiance to anything.
Why? Is patriotism that bad?
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Secondly, the God part. What if you're a Hindu? Or an atheist? I thought the government was meant to be secular!
I used to care about changing the pledge only because of the misnomer about the inclusion of the "under god" part, now I say, if you have a problem: don't say that part or switch out god for whatever you believe. Until it is changed and the majority of people understand why and when it was included, I see this as too small of a battle to go full force into.

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Rodia
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:33 pm
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Don't they just leave the God part out? Like scouts...their pledge includes God (at least here in Poland) but it's optional.

You're not the only one to find the idea of a pledge frightening...but I think it might be because it's so...alien to us. After all, it's tradition and patriotism... here in Poland we are taught the national anthem as soon as we go to school, and there is also a short poem:

Who are you?
- A Polish child.
What is your sign?
- The white eagle.
Where do you live?
- Among my own.
In what land?
- In Polish lands.
What is that land?
- My fatherland.
What is it marked with?
- Blood and scars.
Do you love it?
- I love it truly.
And what do you believe in?
- I believe in God.


Although it's not something that is said every day like the Pledge is (as far as I know?) it's something every young Pole is expected to know by heart. I don't think it violates anyone's right not to like God or Poland...it's just part of the patriotic tradition. Children must be taught SOMETHING about their country when they're young...I'm sure later on they can figure it all our for themselves, but I think it's okay for kids to be taught to be proud of where they come from.

(derailing I think we are. :P)

But I do know what you mean. I used to read books by whatshername...Paula Danzinger when I was ten years old or so...she had one about a teacher who refused to say the Pledge in school and got fired over it. (though her book was set in the early seventies or eighties I think).I remember when I read it I was very puzzled...what was the big deal...why did people make such a fuss about this woman...how could she be forced to recite something?

I loathe group recitations, assemblies and all that. I went to drama camp once and the leader insisted we all hold hands and sing a special song at the beginning of each day. I never sang it and always tried to avoid the meeting. There's just something about people reciting stuff together that makes me itch... even at Church I don't open my mouth, except for the Lord's Prayer. Although it's easier there because I can usually believe that the people around me come to church and pray because they want to participate in Mass...it's not that easy to get up on a Sunday morning. ;)

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:49 pm
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We should start a thread on the whole pledge/God issue rather then derailing this one. They're both good topics.


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Rodia
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 10:50 pm
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Good idea. :D

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 11:10 pm
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Yes, so now we can get back to the original topic, which is:

Why does the FCC suck so much?


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