board77

It may be, it may not be. The news entry on his site no longer exists to look at the source - but most of what he posts is legitimate news stories from elsewhere to which he adds a comment. There's no reason to instantly assume it was forged.

I seem to recall from my Laws of Armed Conflict training in the Air Force that we are not supposed to use captured enemy prisoners for propaganda purposes, for example, show trials.

Iavas_Saar wrote:

Quote:

David Icke?

Are you implying that he forged it?

Well, referring to Rove's title seemed odd. And Icke is not exactly known as a reliable source of information.

The one thing that strikes me as curious is that the announcement was released Sunday...but the accompanying findings weren't ready and won't be until Thursday.

Lord_Morningstar wrote:

Iavas_Saar wrote:

Quote:

David Icke?

Are you implying that he forged it?

Well, referring to Rove's title seemed odd. And Icke is not exactly known as a reliable source of information.

He isn't?

Jeez.

Whoda thunk it, eh?

As a note, I'm not saying that Icke forged it himself, but that it may be a forgery. I believe that Icke has given credence to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a known forgery.

It's all rigged. Everything. You name it, money's involved...ofcourse it's no coincidence.

It's not anger with the doings of the politicians and Bush that get me. It's the frustration with the American people, one by one, that go and support Bush all the republican bullshit, that makes me want to despair.

Just off the BBC. It's on US news services as well.

Is it just me, or did a whole house of cards just come crashing down?

My first reaction to that news is who put Feith in that position. If he was supplying intelligence or assesments that went against standard intelligence opinion there must have been a reason. Find his employer/patron/appointer and you start to have a trail.

Military investigates puppy-throwing video

Video removed from youtube but can be seen here (for now):

http://view.break.com/463231

The audio of the puppy might have been added, but even if it was dead, it's still pretty callous behaviour.

This video appears to be raising disproportionately high emotions, which is really an indicator that the issue isn't just the puppy incident but instead that the puppy incident is a perfect visual metaphor for this whole war and how awful the entire Iraq situation is.

Normally the correct comment is "why get so upset over a puppy considering all the rapes and beatings and murders being committed by the troops." Normally I'd agree, but throwing a helpless puppy off a cliff and laughing about it shows how this war is severely dehumanizing to all participants.

If you support the troops, you support bringing them home.

C_G, having someone try to kill you several times a week tends to dehumanize people, not just this war (my emphasis on what you wrote) but every war has caused many great people lose track of reality.

It is very similar to a police officer, fire fighter, coroner, etc having a sense of humor about death. You see it so much you become desensitized to it and turn to humor to provide some comfort in and otherwise sucky situation.

Disclaimer: I have not and will not watch the video. So my comments are not directed at supporting or denying the video.

freddy

I can't recommend the book On Killing highly enough in this regard. Written by a retired Army officer and psychologist, if memory serves, it's a look at the history of how the shift in American military training between WW II and Vietnam exacerbated the problems normally associated with taking normal people and requiring them to kill other people. It's not an anti-war book so much as an anti-use-people-and-then-abandon-them-like-used-kleenex book.

Col. Grossman is well respected with the Law Enforcement world and is a regular speaker at conventions. I have his book but haven't read it (I'm not much of a reader).


freddy

Grossman is the author, yes, thanks for reminding me. I was too lazy to go find it to check.

While it is true that having to kill and being a target is dehumanizing, there's a special quality involved in an occupation force that's not present in regular combat. It is true that war actually has a 97% casualty rate, because even those physically injured are psychologically injured (and 3% were psychotic to begin with).

Certain occupations face death daily. Some doctors feel that death is a part of the hospital staff, and are justified in feeling that way. But deliberately inflicting death in the way that soldier did isn't just having a sense of humor about it.

I once read a summary article of the book, and it promises that the book is quite good. It compares actual killing rates from WWII through Vietnam, and also the incidents of psychological disorder from WWII through Vietnam.

Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:

While it is true that having to kill and being a target is dehumanizing, there's a special quality involved in an occupation force that's not present in regular combat. It is true that war actually has a 97% casualty rate, because even those physically injured are psychologically injured (and 3% were psychotic to begin with).

Certain occupations face death daily. Some doctors feel that death is a part of the hospital staff, and are justified in feeling that way. But deliberately inflicting death in the way that soldier did isn't just having a sense of humor about it.

I once read a summary article of the book, and it promises that the book is quite good. It compares actual killing rates from WWII through Vietnam, and also the incidents of psychological disorder from WWII through Vietnam.

Where are you getting these numbers about the psychological status of troops? What is this "special quality" you are speaking of?

True doctors face death everyday but it is seldom, if ever, a violent death. Not too many doctors see the results of a suicide or homicide.

Again, I am not speaking of the video because I won't watch it. If the title to the video is accurate then he needs disciplined AND help.

Also please forgive me, his actual rank is Lt. Colonel.

freddy

Not too many doctors see the results of suicide or homicide?

Maybe not, but they see all the botched suicides and all the "not dead right away" homicides. A guy who's dead is dead. But having to work on someone who's shot his own face off? Or a child beaten 9/10 to death?

I don't think anyone has it tougher than doctors, to be honest. They mostly regard it as a failure if someone dies. Soldiers, cops, fire fighters, have different priorities. Not LESSER, but different.

You two are talking across each other.

It's one thing to grow callous towards death. That's what happens with medical and emergency workers. That's where the black humor comes from.

It's another thing to grow callous towards life. That's what happens when you turn people into killing machines. That's where killing puppies comes from.

Very true River, very true.


Vison, the ER docs that have to deal with that crap. Not taking away from them, it's still hard and it still sucks. I wouldn't want their job in any manner, especially in cities like Detroit or Philly. Good people doing a hard job.

Now a podiatrist, sorry I can't sympathize with them.


freddy