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 Post subject: Terror/Police States
PostPosted: Sun 21 Aug , 2005 6:36 pm 
His Rosyness

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Isn't it strange (or perhaps not), that the biggest movie phenomenon of all time seems to mirror what is happening in the real world? When we watched Episode's I & II, we wondered about the purpose of the political drama. Episode III made it clear:

"So this is how liberty dies.. with thunderous applause."

Lucas developed Star Wars in the early post-Vietnam era. Quoting Lucas:

"The issue was, how does a democracy turn itself into a dictatorship... When I wrote it, Iraq (the U.S.-led war) didn't exist.. but the parallels of what we did in Vietnam and Iraq are un believable ...I didn't think it was going to get this close."

Speaking about present day America he said:

"I hope this doesn't come true in our country."

Now, it is surely hard to deny that there is political message in Episode III. Bush's "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists" is clearly portrayed as a Sith-like quality when Anakin says to Obi-Wan "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy."

Did Lucas know, back in the 70's, that the beginning of his saga would be highly relevant today? He has said that he simply plays on subconscious archetypal symbols that evoke primeval fears and passions. He has also stated on many occasions that he draws from historical examples of imperial leaders' lust for war and total power, including Nazi germany. This is obviously reflected in things like the uniform design of Imperial officers.

Episode I - The Trade Federation is used as a pawn by Darth Sidious to allow his alter-ego Palpatine to be elected chancellor.

Episode II - Palpatine (Cheney) gradually engineers a wider conflict, using his own man, Count Dooku (Bin Laden), to lead the separatists (al-Queda)in creating terror attacks throughout the galaxy. This allows the Chancellor to gain "emergency powers" (Patriot Act and other measures of control on the horizon), and to call for the creation of a "grand army of the Republic", which he will later use to impose martial law.

Episode III - The galaxy becomes engulfed in a war between the clone army (US/allied troops, used for cannon fodder) and the droid army (evil, soulless arabs). Palpatine uses his puppet, Anakin Skywalker(Bush) to destroy both the separatist leaders and the jedi. He uses the ensueing crisis to dismantle the Republic permanently, and create "the first galatic empire" (New World Order), of which he is the dictator, gaining complete control over every citizen and their way of life. He achieved this by installing the "If you're not with us, you're against us" philosophy in his puppet.

And if you think the Bush/Empire/Nazi connection is far fetched, remember that Prescott Bush, the grandfather of the President, got into deep trouble during World War II for trading with the enemy, and that he was on the Board of Directors of the company owned by Fritz Thyssen, who was also a member of the Order of Death (of which G W Bush's "Skull and Bones" secret society is a part), and the chief financier of Hitler in Germany. Also remember that the Bushes have long family ties with the Bin Laden family, and that Osama Bin Laden was installed by the CIA.

The Globalists want one world government and police state, where you are microchipped at birth and are monitored in everything you do. Lucas also explored these fears in his first movie, THX-1138. Is he warning us, or desensitizing us to what is happening? I would hope, due to the fact that the rebel alliance is victorious in the end, that Lucas wants us to stand up against the oppressors - perhaps that is why he's always worked outside Hollywood?

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 10:58 am 

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Lucas is obviously making a jab at Bush in Episode III. Do I think that he's a 9/11 conspiracy theorist? No. I don't see why we need another thread discussing the unimaginable evil of the Bush Administration and their plans for world domination.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 3:03 pm 
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It's just that cyclical history thing turning 'round again. The last great "Crisis" era was WWI, the one before that was the Civil War, the one before that was the American Revolution. We are due for the next "crisis" to happen starting about *now* and continuing for 20 years. When it is finished, world changing events will have happened, and society will be quite different from now in some unimaginable fashion.

These cycles have been going on for a long time, but are particularly well documented in the past several hundred years by the book, "The Fourth Turning".

The best books and movies follow the same sort of societal cyclical changes as real life, otherwise they wouldn't ring true. It doesn't really matter whether you say they remind you of WWII or the Civil War, or some other similar time where societal pressures were causing similar changes to society. The pressures involved WILL cause similar, predictable changes, and movies & books have to follow this archetype, or they won't be thought "good", or "realistic".


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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 3:20 pm 
Daydream Believer

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Ah Maria I was simply going to say history repeats itself, but you beat me too it, in a much more elegant way too. Its time for a change, change will happen. Either we adapt or get left behind.

I find it exciting, not in a good or bad way, but exciting.

And if Lucas knows everything why cant he find a good plastic surgeon to fix that neck? ......seriously.

Lucas simply realizes that human nature is such that things repeat. We are in a cycle. People who believe this particular life style and the "American" way of life will endure forever are mistaken. Nothing lasts forever in this world, its not meant too. Things change, Lucas realized that and so do most historians. Its human nature. I just hope we change for the better, but I think we will have to change for the worse before it will get better.

The only thing I wish is that I could be alive for the end of all things, or be around for it somehow and see what happens. I am curious as to how it will all end. What will be the finally of the human race on the third planet from this star in the outer rim of the Milky Way which is part of a much larger organism.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 3:46 pm 
His Rosyness

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Quote:
I don't see why we need another thread discussing the unimaginable evil of the Bush Administration and their plans for world domination.


This was meant to be more about the New World Order, and the future for society, rather than Bush and co themselves or 9/11.

The current trend, falling right in line with the predictions of people like Alex Jones, is that civil liberties are being eroded in the name of improving national security. Look at what Tony Blair is doing in the wake of 7/7, it's frightening: rushing to get national ID cards, anti-terror laws to detain or deport people who haven't even commited a crime, banning protestors around the houses of parliament, and even wanting to censor the internet for any views that are judged to support terrorism (how soon will it be before criticising the governments terrorism policies is defined as supporting terrorism?).

Do you not see where things are heading? A world where babies are microchipped at birth, where there are cameras on every street corner, where your every move is monitored, where dissenting opinions are considered a security threat, where there is martial law, and all in the name of terrorism. Policy is now being dictated by the need to "keep the country safe from terror". Yet that very act is keeping the effect of terror alive and well.

I thought it was unbelievable the kind of news stories that appeared on US TV after 7/7 - "How safe is your town from terrorism?" - as if there are terrorists plotting in every minor backwater! The more we react to terrorism, the more the terrorists are winning. But that's exactly what the globalists want - for the fear of terrorism to be ever present, so that we can be easily manipulated.

The timing of 7/7 was very convenient for the B.A. in getting their Patriot Act renewed. And for implementing random bag searches on the New York subway. This can't seriously have been thought to be any sort of deterrent for a determined terrorist, so it can only have been testing the waters of invading public privacy. We now also have janitors etc being trained to look out for anything suspicious in peoples homes.

So, how many of your civil liberties are you prepared to concede in the name of terrorism?

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 3:58 pm 
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Well, I'll put some stock into the theory if Bush tries to remain in power longer than his two terms... or if his wife runs for president... but other than that, I'll just continue living in my conspiracy free bubble...

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 4:10 pm 
His Rosyness

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Bush is just a pawn. The real guys running the show are behind the scenes. The Skull and Bones secret society at Yale admits just 15 members every year. And yet out of 290 million people, both of the main candidates in the 2004 election were members of this society. What are the chances? Bush and Kerry were, and still are, "brothers in arms". Both were groomed for positions of power. It wouldn't have mattered who won in the grand scheme of things.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 4:12 pm 
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So, how many of your civil liberties are you prepared to concede in the name of terrorism?

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Ben Franklin

This problem is a problem that has been going on for some time now. It seems for about 200 years in America humanity was able to live with not having temporary safety, but now the pedilum has swung back and we will end up with neither safety or liberty, and that is how most of humanity has lived for thousands of years, not free, under surfship/slavery and not very safe.


Wait here is another quote, from Ben.


Quote:
There was never a good war or a bad peace.

Letter to Josiah Quincy [September 11, 1783]


Oh and one more
Quote:
Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 4:19 pm 
b77 whipping boy
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Iavas_Saar wrote:
Bush is just a pawn. The real guys running the show are behind the scenes. The Skull and Bones secret society at Yale admits just 15 members every year. And yet out of 290 million people, both of the main candidates in the 2004 election were members of this society. What are the chances? Bush and Kerry were, and still are, "brothers in arms". Both were groomed for positions of power. It wouldn't have mattered who won in the grand scheme of things.


So what do you think this all-powerful secret society running the world in the background wants? To gain more power? They already run everything. Wealth? They can apparently fix national elections, I'm pretty sure they're doing ok. Peace? Obviously not if they're creating conflict and chaos.

I'm not sure where else they have to go, unless you move into religious or spiritual realms, and then I'll just point out that there's no new news there. There are "powers" at work in the world behind the scenes. I'll agree with you that many of them want to manipulate the world into all this bad stuff happening, or manipulate the world into thinking lots of different things.

But there's not just the one side to that battle. And in that battle, it doesn't really matter who is elected or seizes power or what.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 4:24 pm 
Daydream Believer

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Halplm,

Its the secert seven. They rule the world. It was eight, but Lucas refused to get his neck done. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 4:58 pm 
His Rosyness

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Quote:
So what do you think this all-powerful secret society running the world in the background wants? To gain more power? They already run everything. Wealth? They can apparently fix national elections, I'm pretty sure they're doing ok. Peace? Obviously not if they're creating conflict and chaos.


They want a single global state with one world government, and a significantly lower global population.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 5:22 pm 
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Iavas_Saar wrote:
Quote:
So what do you think this all-powerful secret society running the world in the background wants? To gain more power? They already run everything. Wealth? They can apparently fix national elections, I'm pretty sure they're doing ok. Peace? Obviously not if they're creating conflict and chaos.


They want a single global state with one world government, and a significantly lower global population.


Yes but WHY? This secret group apparently ACTS as a one world government. The desire for a lower global population is an interesting one, but again, there has to be a purpose for that. Saving of natural resources... reduce the chance for global starvation... what? And then every action you want to attribute to them must fit that purpose, or you can't attribute it to them.

What do they value, what are they getting out of it?

It's easy to speculate that there's this grand secret power running everything... but there has to be a goal they're working towards, and it has to be well defined.

The fact that this is so secret that such a goal is not known, makes it very hard to believe.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 5:40 pm 
His Rosyness

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The goal is not secret, it's the creation of a "New World Order". Right now, they have control over the major world governments, but they know that they could not deal with a full scale uprising by the masses against them. That is why they are bringing in more ways to control and monitor the public. They want an ordered, big brother world, and only now are they gaining the technology to implement that.

As to the question of *why* they want more control, they believe it is the natural order of things that the "illuminated" ones should control the workers. It is like a religion that they grow up to follow. There doesn't have to be an obvious motive other than they have a vision for the world that they want to achieve.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 6:10 pm 
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I seem to not be able to find any facts in this thread...

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 6:21 pm 
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Ah the Illuminati. It's a fun theory, but it just doesn't hold up to serious scrutiny. The reason they could never succeed in this "New World Order" where they control everyone, and there's no independant thought and all of that is because they've tried. Humanity doesn't function that way, no matter how many personal freedoms they take away. There will always be a group of people that will not buy into it. And I can't believe people intelligent and conniving enough to put themselves in a position to RUN THE WORLD GOVERNMENTS, could be stupid enough to not realize that.

It is fun to joke about though. However, I don't think it's worth the time to worry about. The government only has as much effect on your life as you allow them to. The more you worry about it, the less you're doing things that you enjoy and things that add value to your own life. Why worry about the world, it's hard enough to worry about your own place in it.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 6:33 pm 
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I'm with Eru. The speculation is just too much for me, and I've read all about the Illuminati. Silly stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 7:01 pm 
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There will always be a group of people that will not buy into it. And I can't believe people intelligent and conniving enough to put themselves in a position to RUN THE WORLD GOVERNMENTS, could be stupid enough to not realize that.


Excellent point.

Quote:
That is why they are bringing in more ways to control and monitor the public.


So let me get this straight, this almost omnipotent collection of bad James Bond villans, trying to take over the world, is causing havoc so they can legally monitor the people more?

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 8:04 pm 

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World Governments are incredible complex things composed of many competing interests. People have done studies (usually on the UK, although there was an interesting one done in CT, USA) to try and prove that nations are run by close-knit elites pushing an agenda, and the best that they've been able to come up with is several thousand wealthy, powerful and somewhat related people managing various top-level roles. Other studies have found that Governments are very much driven by bottom-up policy making, or are so fractured that no-one person or interest is ruling them at all.

I don't doubt the western world is in for some rough times, perhaps similiar to the 1960s. Do I think that the end result will be the global domination of the illuminati? No. This thread is so far basing itself on conspiracy theories and historical predictions based on the plot of fantasy movies.

Can anyone dig up some evidence that the Illuminati or such an analogue are not simply a plot device in a Dan Brown novel or a figment of the imagination of the nuttiest of the nutty Christian Right?

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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 8:32 pm 
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Well said, Lord_M, and 10ft.

I really don't know why anyone is surprised by the cyclical nature of human existence. We just lived through decades of "permissiveness", for lack of a better word and are heading, apparently, into the opposite.

The Victorian era followed the Georgian/Regency era, and was partly a reaction to that more "libertine" society. This was a different world, however, as any kind of freedom of action belonged solely to the upper orders of society. The mass of people lived that "short, nasty and brutish" life.

The Victorian era died at last in the trenches of WW I, and the resulting revolutions reverberated for decades. For the first time, ordinary people were involved, and the changes were both more noticeable and pervasive.

As well, the cycle is speeding up with each turn, I think.

To assign any kind of intellectual character to any film of George Lucas's, with the possible exception of American Graffiti, is to be deluded beyond permission. The last three movies in particular are so bad, so awful, so self-indulgently ghastly, that I think the problem with his neck could be solved rather neatly by strangling him with the master copies of those three movies............

And no, I'm not kidding.


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PostPosted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 8:51 pm 
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A better comparislon is with the Babylon 5 series. We are re-watching it right now, and the parallels between the governmental lies, cover ups and loss of civil liberties are quite interesting, considering when it was made.


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