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Ara-anna
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Posted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 9:52 pm
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Maybe after Vison fixes Lucas's neck she can do something about THE DONALDS hair, what a mess that is.

These people who are in charge, why can't they make good looking men rich? Oh sure the women are fine, but the men are bugly. Look at your richest men, not a good looking bunch there. Obviously those in charge are all men and want women to suffer, especially pretty women. OH yes you can be beautiful but the men in your social order are going to be ugly. These people are twisted, twisted, twisted. :devil: me likes.

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vison
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Posted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 10:23 pm
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The Donald's hair is one thing. Oh, I admit it's an AWFUL thing.

But imagine kissing that mouth.

:puke:

I guess you didn't know the reason the men are ugly is that they're Alien Reptiles (Giant Lizards, so to speak), and they tend to seek out lovely Earth women to........mate......with......you know, like Charles marrying Diana?

Is Camilla an Earth woman? (She was lovely as a girl.) Or is she his Alien Reptile mate, brought in after he had reproduced with an Earth maiden?

Man. These are DEEP questions.


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Sidonzo
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Posted: Mon 22 Aug , 2005 11:50 pm
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Iavas, I think you would be interested in reading some of www.newswithviews.com. It is a right wing site and I don't agree with everything they have on there (especially about immigration), but there are some good articles about the UN's Agenda 21, Sustainable Developement, Eminent Domain, CAFTA and other trade agreements, and the War on Terror (there is also an article about Cindy Sheehan that you might enjoy). They also link to the UN's site so you can see what the UN says about their own issues.

You also might be interested in reading The Underground History of American Education which was written by a former New York English teacher. It isn't about the War on Terror, but it is about a conspiracy to dumb down school children and who wanted to do it and why. It can be read online here: http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm.

Personally, I'm still thinking about the whole New World Order and other conspiracy issues. I'm leaning more to the side that some conspiracy theories have merit, but I still have a lot to read and think about.

~Sidonzo


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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 11:12 am
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I'll respond to people later, but for now, take a look at the new stormtroopers in action:

http://cutup.org.nyud.net:8090/dir/fascism.mov

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 3:17 pm
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Out of context, that really doesn't mean much, Iavas.

It is perfectly possible that the (outdoors, at night, apparently loud) party was illegal and that milder means had already been tried to shut it down.

Or, it could be fascist oppression of the young. There is no context.

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 3:34 pm
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Apparantly, they may not have had a large gathering license, even though they had a medical license and had medical and security staff present. The participants said excessive force was used against them, video cameras were knocked out of their hands etc. This one video that did get out is now circulating the internet and people are trying to get it on to news programs. Why the need for army gear? Why the brutality against people who were just dancing and having a good time?

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 3:44 pm
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Iavas_Saar wrote:
Why the brutality against people who were just dancing and having a good time?
To be fair, we didn't see what those people who were being handcuffed on the ground had done to deserve that. Maybe they didn't do anything at all. The fact is, we just don't know and can't see that.

Those type of outdoor raves are known to have lots of illegal drugs at them (extasy) and lots of underage users, so I can't feel too bad for the party being busted up. The party being busted shouldn't matter, nor should the gear that the police are wearing. What should matter is if the force they used was reasonable or not. That's what should be focused on.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 6:49 pm
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Without context the video means nothing.

What medical license? What medical security staff? You need to post a written account of this for any of that to be useful in discussion.

If they didn't have a license to gather then the police, regardless of what they wore, have a right to shut them down. If they were violating noise ordinances, the police had a right to shut them down. If there were drugs... etc.

It is entirely possible that the police were just trying to ruin their good time, too.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 23 Aug , 2005 6:55 pm
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I have to say I'm not sure where "ruining their good time" falls on the scale of political oppression. It makes me think of the Python bit (Holy Grail?) where the man being dragged away is shouting, "Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm bein' repressed!"

Of course, he was being repressed, IIRC. ;)

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 5:49 pm
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The fear-mongering continues:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4172376.stm
Quote:
Clear bags 'to ease Tube fears'

It is hoped the plastic rucksacks will ease Tube commuters' fears
A range of see-through rucksacks and cases have been launched for Tube users in an attempt to reduce fear in the wake of the London bomb attacks.
How are people supposed to get back to normal lives when every time they see a clear bag they'll be reminded that they have to be on the lookout for terrorists?

Far from easing fears, this just helps ensure that the terrorists legacy increasingly shapes peoples daily lives. It will make non-clear bags seem even more suspicious!

This is just a few steps away from clear bags becoming LAW, ensuring that no private (justified as potential terrorist) possessions can be hidden by civilians from the growing swarms of security cameras.

At worst this is a ploy to test the waters before one day making clear bags law - at best it is just a completely stupid idea if the aim is not to let terrorists change our way of life.


And yet more:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166446,00.html
Quote:
WASHINGTON — Asking for increased vigilance in the wake of the London bombings (search), the government is warning that terrorists may pose as vagrants to conduct surveillance of buildings and mass transit stations to plot future attacks.
So now they want us looking nervously over our shoulders whenever we pass a homeless person too? They won't stop this manipulation until they get as many people as possible concerned about potential signs of terrorism in their daily lives.

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Jude
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 6:03 pm
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This is nothing new. Londoners have been used to seeing signs about suspicious packages for years.

In Edinburgh, during Festival time, all the rubbish bins on Princes St were nailed shut so that we had to leave our rubbish outside the bin. An endless source of annoyance for me! :rage:

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 6:17 pm
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Quote:
This is nothing new. Londoners have been used to seeing signs about suspicious packages for years.
Everywhere has those warnings. That is just common sense. But being suspicious of every non-clear rucksack people carry goes way beyond common sense. As does surveying 'vagrants' for signs of being an undercover terrorist.

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vison
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 8:43 pm
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No, Iavas. Londoners have been used to TERRORIST warnings for years. Years and years. Does the name IRA mean anything to you?

You slay me, quite frankly. All this sturm und drang over a clear knapsack or two, yet what use could it all be when the Prime Minister of Great Britain and his dancing partner G. W. Bush are going to destroy the world, anyway? Let them have their clear knapsacks, I say. They won't listen to YOUR warnings anyway.


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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 8:58 pm
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Quote:
Londoners have been used to TERRORIST warnings for years. Years and years. Does the name IRA mean anything to you?
Exactly. So why are these measures only coming in now? Why are they suddenly giving in to it and trying to change people's lifestyle?
Quote:
You slay me, quite frankly. All this sturm und drang over a clear knapsack or two, yet what use could it all be when the Prime Minister of Great Britain and his dancing partner G. W. Bush are going to destroy the world, anyway?
Well, I can't help it if you can't understand simple concepts. Nowhere have I mentioned "destroying the world".

So I'm guessing you're fine with the rationale behind introducing clear bags? Now imagine you're on the tube, and there are two people sitting opposite you. In the first scenario, both of them have normal rucksacks between their legs. In the second scenario, one has a clear bag sitting on their lap, where everyone can see that they're not a terrorist hiding a bomb, and the other has a normal rucksack between their legs. In which scenario are you more likely to wonder what might be hidden inside the normal rucksack(s)?

I'm just astonished at the lack of consideration that's gone into this.

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 10:27 pm
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I would also add, that I've been to London many times, been on the tube many times, and have never once stopped to think about terrorism.

Next time, however...

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 24 Aug , 2005 10:38 pm
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Iavas you haven't answered any of the questions concerning you accusation that the cops were oppressing those kids.

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Thu 25 Aug , 2005 1:01 am
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Quote:
Iavas you haven't answered any of the questions concerning you accusation that the cops were oppressing those kids.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/22/13030/7546
Quote:
Last night, I was booked to play an event about an hour outside of Salt Lake City, Utah. The hype behind this show was huge, they presold 700 tickets and they expected up to 3,000 people total. The promoters did an amazing job with the show.. they even made slipmats with the flyers on them to promote in local shops.

So, we got to the show around 11:15 or so and it was really cool. It was all outdoors, in a valley surrounded by huge mountains. They had an amazing light show flashing on to a mountain behind the site, the sound was booming, the crowd was about 1500 people thick and everything just seemed too good to be true really. Well...

At about 11:30 or so, I was standing behind the stage talking with someone when I noticed a helicopter pulling over one of the mountain tops. I jokingly said "Oh look, here comes big brother" to the person I was with. I wasn't far off.

Apollo's diary :: ::
The helicopter dipped lower and lower and started shining its lights on the crowd. I was kind of in awe and just sat and watched this thing circle us for a minute. As I looked back towards the crowd I saw a guy dressed in camoflauge walking by, toting an assault rifle. At this point, everyone was fully aware of what was going on . A few "troops" rushed the stage and cut the sound off and started yelling that everyone "get the fuck out of here or go to jail". This is where it got really sticky.

No one resisted. That's for sure. They had police dogs raiding the crowd of people and I saw a dog signal out a guy who obviously had some drugs on him. The soldiers attacked the guy (4 of them on 1), and kicked him a few times in the ribs and had their knees in his back and sides. As they were cuffing him, there was about 1000 kids trying to leave in the backdrop, peacefully. Next thing I know, A can of fucking TEAR GAS is launched into the crowd. People are running and screaming at this point. Girls are crying, guys are cussing... bad scene.

Now, this is all I saw with my own eyes, but I heard plenty of other accounts of the night. Now this isnt gossip I heard from some candy raver, these are instances cited straight out of the promoters mouth..


One of the promoters friends (a very small female) was attacked by one of the police dogs. As she struggled to get away from it, the police tackled her. 3 grown men proceeded to KICK HER IN THE STOMACH.


The police confiscated 3 video tapes in total. People were trying to document what was happening out there. The police saw one guy filming and ran after him, tackled him and his camera fell, and luckily.. his friend grabbed it and ran and got away. priceless footage. That's not all though. Out of 1,500 people, there's sure to be more footage.


The police were rounding up the staff of the party and the main promoter went up to them with the permit for the show and said "here, I have the permit." The police then said, "no you don't" and ripped the permit out of his hand. Then, they put an assault rifle to his forehead and said "get the fuck out of here right now."


Now.. let's get the facts straight here.

This event was 100% legal. They had every permit the city told them they needed. They had a 2 MILLION DOLLAR insurance policy for the event. They had liscenced security guards at the gates confiscating any alcohol or drugs found upon entry (yes, they searched every car on the way in). Oh, I suppose I should mention that they arrested all the security guards for possession.

Oh another interesting fact.. the police did not have a warrant. The owner of the land already has a lawsuit against the city for something similar. A few months ago, she rented her land for a party and the police raided that as well. And catch this, the police forced her to LEAVE HER OWN PERSONAL PROPERTY. That's right. They didnt arrest her, but made her leave her own property!!!

Don't get it twisted, this is all going down in probably THE most conservative state in the USA. And this is scary.. a gross violation of our civil liberties. The police wanted this party shut down, so they made it happen. Even though everything about this event was legal. The promoters spent over $ 20,000 on this show and did everything they had to to make it legit, only to have it taken away from them by a group of radical neo-con's with an agenda.

This was one of the scariest things I have ever witnessed in person. I can't even begin to describe how surreal it was. Helicopters, assault rifles, tear gas, camoflauge-wearing soldiers.... why? Was that really necessary?

This needs to be big news across the USofA. At least in our music scene (edm as a whole)... this could happen to any of us at any time. When we're losing the right to gather peacefully, we're also letting the police set a standard of what we can get away with. And I think that's BULLSHIT!

The system fucked up last night... They broke up a party that was 100% legal and they physically hurt a lot of people there at the same time. The promoters already have 6 lawsuits ready to file with their lawyers and the ACLU is already involved.

I'm sure some pictures (and hopefully some video) will surface soon. I'll make sure to post them up here on 404, so you can see the Police State of America at work.

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InsertCleverName
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Posted: Thu 25 Aug , 2005 1:25 am
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Some friends of mine are broadcasting a radio program as I write this and their guest is an eyewitness from the party that was broken up by the jackbooted thugs. I'll post an mp3 of it here when I get it. It should be posted here by this time tomorrow.

Here's one of my favorite pictures of the new 'Freedom Bags'

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InsertCleverName
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Posted: Thu 25 Aug , 2005 2:22 am
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Here's the link to the mp3 of the interview with two eye-witnesses that were at the party where jackbooted thugs rushed in and broke up the fun:

Feeding The Goat w/ Roxdog and Squidink, 8-24-05
http://www.mypetgoat.tv/audio/FTG_Volume2_Utah_Rave.mp3

It's 86 megs. Sorry about the size of it, but it's worth the download time to listen to what these two eye-witnesses have to say about what happened. Very informative. Feel free to pass this link far and wide if you'd like to.

ICN

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Thu 25 Aug , 2005 11:10 am
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Thanks for the link ICN. I won't be able to listen to it until next week though, as my parents arrive from the UK today.

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