board77

This is my story, not something I found online.

So a few months ago I got a letter in the mail from a law firm, stating that I had been caught downloading illegally. Now this of course was quite a surprise, considering that well I did download TV shows that I missed, and I also sometimes downloaded music prior to buying it to see if it was worth buying, However I hadn't downloaded the movie they said I had, or any movies at all. I hadn't even seen the movie they claimed I had downloaded, I didn't even realize it was a movie until I asked my roommate about it. Still I somewhat freaked out a bit having never dealt with the legal system in any way shape or form, I don't even have a speeding ticket, I was completely out of my depth.

So I contacted the law firm hoping to clear up this mess and simply explain that they really did have the wrong guy. What I got was a nasty, legal aide telling me I had to settle, for 3,000$, and if I didn't they would own my soul for life, and that they had proof that I had downloaded the movie! I found this somewhat doubtful since I had never downloaded it to begin with, and informed her of this, she said it didn't matter what I said and I had to sign the settlement, or go to court and they would own me.

This left me feeling somewhat angry, so I contacted a lawyer who works on Internet piracy cases, he then informed me that it was doubtful I would win, and would then have to pay a lot more for having gone to court.
Thats where it is now, I can pay 3,000$ to settle out of court, or I can fight the good fight, probably lose and then have to pay even more. So next time any of you say you support stiffer fines and penalties for Internet piracy remember the fact that your innocent doesn't mean anything, all that really matters is that they want your money, and legally they can have it. At this point I'm quite angry, I now understand why there are so many lawyer jokes, and why its seen as a slime ball profession, and frankly I feel all lawyers should burn in hell. They quite literally stole 3,000$ from me, and I can legally do nothing. Don't think it can't happen to you, and don't think if you don't download it wont happen to you, its no longer innocent until proven guilty, it guilty until proven innocent. Don't believe me?


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ ... TION=HOME


http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2001/ ... index.html


http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7280.cfm

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/health ... etail.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/04/riaa_sued/


http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/8133

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060124-6036.html

As someone who has recently decided to go to law school, I find your story disconcerting. The law should not be used to shanghai money from innocent people, but to punish those who break it. Is there no way for you to prove you didn't download the movie? There has to be a way if they can "prove" you did.

Sure I can provide the hard drive I supposedly downloaded the movie too, that is if I hadn't already formatted it, and sold it to a friend, this was a few months before I even knew was going to be sued for it. Of course even if I did that they could claim I had destroyed the evidence on purpose to win the case, or so said the lawyer I consulted.

Ahem, send them a dollar a month, that way you can say you are making payments. Find out what your state regulations for debt repayment are. Here in my state so long as a monthly payment is made thats all that matters, it does not matter how much the payment is, just as long as a payment is made. And if any judge sees that they automatically rule in the favor of the person making the debt. And next time you talk to them say fine sue me, I'll just file bankrupt.

No, no, no!!!! Don't send them a penny! (assuming you really are innocent, of course)

That lawyer you spoke to was useless. Why should anyone assume that a corporation can just pick on any random innocent person, just because they're a corporation? Don't you have "innocent until proven guilty" in your country? They must prove that you downloaded the movie before they can collect any money.

Of course, if you actually did download that movie, then just ignore this post.

What Jude said.

Any idea what their "proof" is?

Here's my understanding of the law. They are hoping you will capitulate because they are a big powerful law firm.

1. Yes, pay a dollar a month until this is settled, and tell them this isn't settled when you pay the dollar a month. As long as you pay $1/month their hands are tied.

2. Delete any downloaded media immediately. Then do a hard drive cleanup. Norton does that - they will place a random blank pattern on empty blocks instead of simply deleting references.

3. Contact the State Bar Association, and accuse the law firm of engaging in the fraud if false billing. Insist that an investigation be launched. This will scare the shit out of them as much as threatening to own you is supposed to scare you. Disbar a lawyer or firm, and he is finished.

4. Contact the State Better Business Bureau and do the same.

5. Contact a DA and inform them that the law firm is engaging in the criminal fraud of false billing. The resources of a rich law firm are less than those of the DA. Have someone else fight your fight for you.

6. After all that is accomplished, file a small claims case against the law firm. Make sure it is small claims. Lawyers aren't allowed in small claims court. Claim the whole $3000 in your small claims case, even if you only paid $10 so far, and claim interest on the $3000 and filing fees. You might even make a profit from this.

Innocent until proven guilty only applys to criminal cases, since this is a civil case thats not the case. They can have whatever hard drive they want I got 6-12 sitting aroung in closets and what not. None of them have the movie on them, as too what proof they have they say they have my IP address, which is possible, I do have a wireless router though, and when we have friends over we've had it unsecured not for long periods, but for a day or so. Even so I don't think the dates match up to that so I really don't know how there getting the IP address, they haven't said. my guess is thats all a horrible mistake.

And thats for the support, this whole thing is really unsettling.

I'd say do what you can to fight this thing, vincent, but definitely be careful. You don't want them to take you for all your worth. This does look like a case of bullying, though. This type of thing is one reason I'm against the RIAA's crackdown of internet piracy. Sometimes it's done just to get money, regardless of whether it has punished a pirate or not.

I'd still get rid of any downloaded media, even though you don't have the movie you're accused of downloading, because in the course of investigating this particular movie, they might decide to press on the others they find during the investigation. Back it up to CD if you want to keep it, but get it off the hard drive then do a blank space cleanup.

Doing it my way will tie their hands while you counter-attack.

If they really are serious about this, listen to CG's advice. He knows a thing or two about law.

The thing about having your IP address is bullshit. My IP changes every week, sometimes more often than that. It might have been your IP at one point, but it ain't anymore.

This is what they would've had to do to get your home address to send you that letter, based off your IP: They have the "guilty" IP address. They use any given IP trace program to find out who owns that IP (Cox, Qwest, etc). Then they contact that company and find out who was was using that IP address at what time. They compare the company's data with their own and find out which home address to send the nasty letters to.

Now I assume, in order to get that info, they must have some sort of warrant or something. Private companies can't just give out people's home addresses over the phone to anyone who asks, right? This means that they must have actually visited the company in person, with an official warrant or the like. I seriously doubt that ever happened.

This is some serious bullshit. It pisses me off almost as much as it does you. This "law-firm" doesn't know what they're on about and they're trying to threaten you? As we say in leet, "LOLzz liek t4ht 15 s0 fUny r0f1z0rzz!!!!11one!!"

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you Vincent. Don't have any advice at all, as I'm completely ignorant about how things work in the US - but if you know you didn't do it, don't capitulate unless and until you've tried everything and there is no other way.

I would at the very least make them give you their proof. I don't know anything about law, but surely at some point they are required to show what proof. Maybe it has to get to court first. Either way. If you haven't done it, I don't know how they can prove it was you. Perhaps they will give you a date for the download that you weren't even around for? I dunno. Seems to me they should be required to do something. I would definatly call the better business bureau and make a stop by the police station to ask them. Most have internet crime divisions so I guess you could ask them what they suggest.. at the very least they might be able to help you understand what possible proof they would have and how it could be disputed.

and unlike a lawer they hopefully wont charge you any money for the info either

Sorry about the lack of posting I was at the beach, I'm still not sure what to do, I'm leaning towards settling just to make it all go away, of course I then get angry that i'm backing down. Frankly it would be easier, and way less stressful simply to pay them. But at this point I just really need to get a lawyer on retainer or whatever its called. Any ideas on how to pick a good lawyer?

Well, there are a couple of lawyers on this board...Ellienor and Voronwe. Voronwe is here more often than Ellienor, and his whole practice revolves around protecting people's rights, so you could PM him, direct him to this thread.

To me, this sounds like a phishing scam. Exactly the same tactics...scare the shit out of you, in order to get something from you.

I would fight it for all I was worth. Get a good lawyer. Definitely contact Voronwe...I think he knows a thing or two about computers as well as law.

Don't back down, Vincent! Don't let them get away with this!

vincent wrote:

Sorry about the lack of posting I was at the beach, I'm still not sure what to do, I'm leaning towards settling just to make it all go away, of course I then get angry that i'm backing down. Frankly it would be easier, and way less stressful simply to pay them. But at this point I just really need to get a lawyer on retainer or whatever its called. Any ideas on how to pick a good lawyer?

This is exactly what they want! They want you to just give in because it's a hastle no one wants to deal with and a quick 3 grand for the law firm. I'd say get more info before settling, you owe it to yourself not to admit fault when you know aren't responsible for downloading that movie!

This whole situation really pisses me off

If you're just going to give in, then do it in a way that insults them without them being able to do anything about it - $1/month.

Then, once you see that you're safe, do all the rest of my advice.

It was probably a really shitty movie too!

I think thats what they do now. They make really crap movies that no one goes to see, so they have to get their money back somehow so they just bilk the internet peoples instead... bastards!