board77

c_g, I've read the original post and then did my own search and found two interesting point.

Your post states that Maye "heard banging on the door". However, I read another report that says Maye testified that he didn't heard anyone knock. If he didn't hear anyone knock, then why did he run and hide? It also takes out the argument that he didn't "know" it was the police.

Maybe because he was in possession of a stolen firearm, the one he used to kill the officer? Oh, yeah he claims a "friend" gave it to him and he had no idea it was stolen. I wish I had friends that would just give me guns. Guns that are legally bought aren't just "given" away, they cost too much money and with the background checks, especially for handguns, it doesn't happen.

What do you think of these "NEW" points?

feredir

Can you link to this other report, since I was kind enough to link to my article? My article did say he heard pounding after all. Yours sounds more like the official report, the one used to "prove" Maye's guilt. Your article takes out the "didn't know", but does it add a "did know"?

After all, the official report has to say everything was done correctly. The police never invade the property of someone innocent, like Don Scott of Malibu, do they?

Why assume the worst of the cop instead of the shooter? Do you think cops enjoy breaking into people's houses for no reason?

Posting this for Feredir (who is looking over my shoulder):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye

yovargas wrote:

Why assume the worst of the cop instead of the shooter? Do you think cops enjoy breaking into people's houses for no reason?

Is this a trick question?

LalaithUrwen wrote:

Posting this for Feredir (who is looking over my shoulder):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye

I am going to tentatively say here that this is a case of BOTH parties over reacting.

I cannot take sides, but I DO consider the death penalty in this case unfair. But, take my opinion with a grain of salt, I am opposed to the death penalty in any case, and I can find NO moral ground for imposing it if we truly held to a life sentence without parole option for those proven undeniably guilty of whatever charges they were tried upon.

Criminals are corrupt and self serving, and not to knock out anyone's self esteem here or worthy motives, but so are law enforcement officials. Zeal and being all too willing to engage in stings/set ups/tips for drugs/drug dealers and the resulting follow ups have resulted in so much of this type of situation.

On one hand, I can SEE the rationale behind the deliberate killing of a cop resulting in a harsher penalty, but, at the same time, I wonder how many "deliberate" killings are as cold blooded as often times those law enforcement officials like to portray? In this case, Maye was NOT the target of the drug tip, so, I see some serious issues here. Police DO need to respect American and state and local law, no matter what their instincts or other feelings always add to the picture. I am sure that good law enforcement people recognize this.

I am still on the side of Maye here, I am sorry if the police in this jurisdiction bungled their search, but the onus was still on them to show how Maye should have been a target to begin with. How he reacted is not as important as the police "raid" being legitimate in the first place. That is why we have such protections in place.

The apartment Maye was occupying at the time WAS listed on the search warrant that was signed by an impartial judge. This makes the search legal, period. Search warrants are listed for an address because you are obtaining legal permission to violate a person 14th Amendmant rights to search for illegal property. Again a serach warrant is NOT an arrest warrant, if you want to arrest the person you need an arrest warrant or probable cause.

I will agree that there are crooked cops, only a fool would state otherwise. Power can corrupt.

However, all we have heard on this particular case is the criminals side. Everyone keeps saying that he was a law abiding citizen, he was not. He was a felon because he was in possession of a stolen firearm. That in and of itself is a felony.

feredir

I have to agree with Feredir.
If he didn't hear the knock, why did he ran and hide. Plus the fact, I assume that Maye knows the activities of his gf. That is why I said in my posts that he knows something like this would take place sooner or later, whether it's a cop barging at this door or some thugs asking for money.

Wather said:

Quote:

In this case, Maye was NOT the target of the drug tip, so, I see some serious issues here. Police DO need to respect American and state and local law, no matter what their instincts or other feelings always add to the picture. I am sure that good law enforcement people recognize this.

Are you saying that because Maye is not part of the drug tip he should be given a lesser sentence? Can you explain to me why this should be taken into consideration? Are you saying he didn't have any intent on killing the "intruder" that this is an "accidental shooting"?

Feredir wrote:

The apartment Maye was occupying at the time WAS listed on the search warrant that was signed by an impartial judge. This makes the search legal, period. Search warrants are listed for an address because you are obtaining legal permission to violate a person 14th Amendmant rights to search for illegal property. Again a serach warrant is NOT an arrest warrant, if you want to arrest the person you need an arrest warrant or probable cause.

I will agree that there are crooked cops, only a fool would state otherwise. Power can corrupt.

However, all we have heard on this particular case is the criminals side. Everyone keeps saying that he was a law abiding citizen, he was not. He was a felon because he was in possession of a stolen firearm. That in and of itself is a felony.

feredir

I have not said that he was a law abiding citizen, only that HE was not the target of the original search warrant. Fine, if his apartment WAS included, there had to be probable cause for it to be so, and then I maybe would rethink my position. However, from the actions of this PARTICULAR police force prior to all other so far stated sources, Maye was not the first nor primary target of this drug bust.

In any case, it is a sad situation. When the one party is not there to testify, it only becomes Maye's word against the intent of the police. A bad situation to be put into no matter what. I do not see the significance of his illegal weapon. So, how did this still make the case first degree capital homicide? Fine, he was guilty of many possible things and he had an illegal weapon, but in any case, the police confronted him in the middle of the night with no foreseeable reasons to do so.

I see where you are coming from , Feregir, but I do not agree with you. If this building was suspected of being a drug dealing location, there were MUCH better ways to go about the searches.

I guess the better motto would be is to NOT resort to such drastic tactics, they make for nothing but histrionics AND bad publicity. If you know where the drug dealers are, take them out in the safest and most certain way that you can. Kicking in doors in the middle of the night is NOT the way to go about it.

Quote:

If you know where the drug dealers are, take them out in the safest and most certain way that you can. Kicking in doors in the middle of the night is NOT the way to go about it.

Element of surprise.
Most police officers do not know what they are up againts, and you're telling cops to take out criminals in the Safest way possible. Do criminals announce that they are going to attack you? Do they rob you in the safest way possible?

Quote:

Fine, he was guilty of many possible things and he had an illegal weapon, but in any case, the police confronted him in the middle of the night with no foreseeable reasons to do so.

To search the apartment. Unfortunately for him, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time with an illegal weapon.

Some of this thread's posts make it sound like cops enjoy risking their lives for...for what?

yovargas wrote:

Some of this thread's posts make it sound like cops enjoy risking their lives for...for what?

If you are referring to my posts, I question the sanity of ANY type of police raid on a building in the middle of the night. Unless they were taking down a huge major drug deal and/or expecting extreme violent reactions, which they were NOT doing in this particular case, the police WERE endangering the lives of any totally innocent residents of this particular location included or adjacent to the residences of this building cited in the warrant, without any reason shown that they needed to conduct it in this extreme manner. This was a marijuana bust. They were not targeting a meth lab or the hub of a cocaine ring run by top dealers.

Some people do enjoy risking their lives, yov. It gives them a rush.

Yovi, I don't have time to properly answer your question. I will answer it as soon as I can.

feredir

According to Wikipedia, he had no prior criminal record.

The favored tactic due to the drug war is the sudden midnight raid to enforce the warrant. It guarantees those being searched are disoriented, surprised, scared, tired, shocked, and generally don't have the where-with-all to say "let me see the warrant, let me show the warrant to my lawyer."

Instead anyone who even thinks of saying that is being screamed at to keep down while guns are being waved in all directions.

Why assume the wost of cops? Well, there is the problem of how, while some cops are in the business for the purpose of doing something good, there are cops who are in it because it turns them into "authority."

Anyone who fails to show proper respect for that type have, ergo, no respect for authority. I know a few like that, and I want to scream at them that they aren't authority, they are only police, but they, of course, would never listen. Those little piss-ants need their ant hill to piss from.

The drug war has corrupted the establishment of law enforcement, so that even the good ones are forced to work within a bad system. Well intentioned cops are forced to raid the wrong house at 3 in the morning because they are ordered to by their superiors because politicians have a wild hair up their ass and can't stand the thought of people being left alone to decide how to live their own lives.

Yes, if the raid is at 3 am, I must doubt the police. If the raid is a drug raid, I must doubt the police. This raid was both.

c_g, are you aware that for a warrant to be served OUTSIDE of the normal business hours it must be approved by a judge? For a warrant to even be issued, it must be signed by a judge? A No knock warrant must be signed by a judge?

Do you see the pattern? ALL SEARCH WARRANTS MUST BE SIGNED BY A JUDGE BEFORE THEY ARE LEGAL. The police cannot just write a warrant and go serve it. It's part of the checks and balances inherrent to our system.

For a warrant to be served outside the normal hours you must prove a reason for them. Drugs are more likely present, there is less risk of harm to the officers, etc. Besides, criminals don't work normal hours, druggies are ususally shooting up late so why can't the police (when appropriate) use this to their advantage and get more drugs off the street?

Police are required to leave a copy of the warrant when they are complete. Why not show it before or knock politely on the door? Because people want to kill us. That is an unreasaonble request.

I agree he had no record, but I would like to hear your answer to the fact that he was in possession of a stolen handgun? Just because someone doesn't have a record could simply mean they might not have been caught yet.

feredir

You make it sound like it's difficult to get a judge's signature on a warrant.

"What's this?"

"Warrant for a drug raid."

"Everything in order?"

"Should be."

"Approved. Next!"

I agree he had no record, but I would like to hear your answer to the fact that he was in possession of a stolen handgun? Just because someone doesn't have a record could simply mean they might not have been caught yet.

True. You may be right. But we're not talking about that now. Right now we're talking about police procedures during unreasonable and possibly illegal searches and seizures.

Oh, so if it's signed by a JUDGE, it must be above reproach. You make it sound as if JUDGES are all above corruption, Feredir. As though JUDGES were the law's equivalent of the Pope. Shall I mention the Borgia?

Judges above reproach? I don't think so, but it is their name on the line if they give a warrant that shouldn't have been. Most warrants are going to be issued by smaller court judges that have asperations of bigger and better things. Give a bad warrant and you can kiss it goodbye. They are also elected officials (at least in my state) and you won't get re-elected.

Have you ever tried to get a warrant? I'll tell you that it is not as you portray it. It will take you several hours to prepare one and then several hours to get a judge to approve it. He/she is going to have a ton of questions before they sign it. They had better have these questions, this is a serious act.

I am not in lala land and do not think that every legal system works without corruption. I know for a fact that there is corruption on every level of government. Power can corrupt.

Can anyone provide a link to the search warrant in this case? I would like to read it and see what is listed on the warrant.

feredir