board77

Exposing the war machine:

http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/m ... 64322.armx

This movie would support posts people have made in SO many threads here. After checking out a number of threads, I finally decided to give it its own topic, to avoid osgiliating the other threads....

Plenty of fuel for discussion here, but just let me quote the final sentence in the article that sums it all up...

Quote:

“Why We Fight” should be required viewing for anyone who still believes that the U.S. presence in Iraq has anything to do with freedom. A masterpiece.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but you could make a movie showing how much good the so called "war machine" of the US had done in the world as well.

I'm not saying people haven't tried to profit building weapons and machines of war (I work for a company doing just that). We live in a country where you try to profit. But this movies seems little more than propaganda... very much of the Michael Moore vein.

Could be wrong, of course, but this article seems to state the movie is anything but objective... and highly pointed in its opinion and objective.

Very interesting that the title WHY WE FIGHT is taken directly from a series of films made by the great director Frank Capra during World War 2 for the US government.

***leaves thread feeling disappointed when she realizes the topic was not about us in B77***

Triumph of the Will is a great cinematic movie as well....

I've never seen this film so I have no idea if its good, bad, or so so, but I am always leary of "documentaries". For every documentary that is made against the war, you can always make one for it. It's all in how you slant things.

Does anyone really still believe terrorism and WMD's were the main reason for the whole thing? Even now that a Republican Texas oilman is touring the country making speeches about being addicted to oil?

Why we are in Iraq is neither here nor there the point is we are there now so lets stop rehashing the same old song and dance and deal with the here and now.

We are in Iraq, now what?

More propoganda Michael Moore style? No thanks.

TheMary wrote:

Why we are in Iraq is neither here nor there the point is we are there now so lets stop rehashing the same old song and dance and deal with the here and now.

If the people who perpetrated the war weren't still in power, perhaps it would be appropriate to let bygones be bygones. As it is, they're still there busily plotting more adventures for the US military. It's important not to forget what happened the first time.

And as long as the Roves and Rumsfelds of the world continue putting out propaganda, the Moores and Jareckis need to counter it.

Are we just going to assume now that an anti-war film is gonna be Moore-style propaganda?

laureanna wrote:

***leaves thread feeling disappointed when she realizes the topic was not about us in B77***

I had that thought too.

would you prefer that as the topic?

yovargas wrote:

Are we just going to assume now that an anti-war film is gonna be Moore-style propaganda?

Yep.

If it's an informative documentary, it will not be slanted as pro or anti war. It will simply present facts... or provide both sides of whatever argument.

sauronsfinger wrote:

would you prefer that as the topic?

We already have plenty of those.

Excuse me for laughing and particpating in a joke.

halplm wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Are we just going to assume now that an anti-war film is gonna be Moore-style propaganda?

Yep.

If it's an informative documentary, it will not be slanted as pro or anti war. It will simply present facts... or provide both sides of whatever argument.

And if the objective facts are: GWB lied about the reasons for going to war?

those are not objective facts, those are a distortion of the facts.

Bush did not lie about anything. People focused on ONE OF the reasons we went to war, which turned out to not be as valid as many of the other 180 odd reasons listed for goign to war when Congress agreed to it.

But, that's another issue.

The point is, you can make the facts say anything you want them to say. Thsi is what Michael Moore does. Because of his awards, he has turned "documentary" into "propaganda" and it's going to take a lot of good documentaries before that's not the automatic assumption...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.



There Hal I edited my post. Hope you like the new one.

That wasn't my point. GWB may or may not have lied. But if a documentary gathers facts showing that Bush was dishonest, it is not necessarily slanted, much like, say, a Nixon documentary saying the same thing isn't necessarily slanted. Whether or not GWB told (and tells) the truth is an objective fact that can be reported objectively.

No idea if this movie does but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it comes to negative conclusions about the President.

What makes propaganda propagana? Can propaganda be true? Can normal reporting be false?

yovargas wrote:

That wasn't my point. GWB may or may not have lied. But if a documentary gathers facts showing that Bush was dishonest, it is not necessarily slanted, much like, say, a Nixon documentary saying the same thing isn't necessarily slanted. Whether or not GWB told (and tells) the truth is an objective fact that can be reported objectively.

No idea if this movie does but it shouldn't be dismissed simply because it comes to negative conclusions about the President.

You're certainly welcome to not dismiss it at all.

I'm dismissing it becasue it's being billed as an ANTI-war film... which to me means, it's purpose is to show the war as beign wrong. That's all well and good... but I happen to think it was right at the time, for reasons that have nothing to do with bush lying or not, or any of the other things they're going to spin as reasons not to go to war.

Indeed, Ara, thanks, and that's a favorite of mine .

I'm not saying people shouldn't make these films, I'm just saying I think they should be ignored