board77

Read all about it. I suppose this is not so surprising, since he's been in poor health throughout this whole thing.

I'm glad he's gone, but I'm not so glad his trial will not be finished. Justice has not been served, and somehow I don't think the story is over just because he's dead.

I saw this on BBC News this morning. I guess it's too bad that he had to die before his trial was concluded and he was officially found guilty, but as far as I'm concerned, he's dead and that's it. Thank God we don't have to deal with him anymore....alive at least. His attourneys seem to be planning to make this thing hell. It looks like they're going to try to claim that if he'd been allowed to travel to Russia for special medical treatment, he'd have survived to finish the trial. But we'll have to wait for the autopsy to see if that's the case. We'll probably never know for sure. Good riddance is all I can really say.

His trial was rapdily turning into a farce. Since the "civilized" powers cannot simply execute enemy leaders, we need to put them on trial first and the trial wasn't going as the "civilized" powers wanted it to.

This is the biggest blessing that NATO and the USA could have hoped for, because now it is impossible that he might get an acquittal.

Let's see if Saddam is willing to do the same favour.

Riverthalos wrote:

I'm glad he's gone, but I'm not so glad his trial will not be finished. Justice has not been served, and somehow I don't think the story is over just because he's dead.

even if his trial did go till the end, "justice" would still not be served... I agree with CG, the whole thing was a farse....

the whole thing is SO much more complicated, Milosevic may have been one of the most prominent figures of the war, but by far he was not the most "dangerous" one....he was the politican...it is the amoral people who were executing the orders of the politican, and who are now at large continuing to do whatever they please, that we should worry about....

moonfariegalena wrote:

the whole thing is SO much more complicated, Milosevic may have been one of the most prominent figures of the war, but by far he was not the most "dangerous" one....he was the politican...it is the amoral people who were executing the orders of the politican, and who are now at large continuing to do whatever they please, that we should worry about....

By that logic, shouldn't we have hunted down every last member of the Waffen SS and Imperial Japanese Army just to be certain that we'd won the war and bought all the perpetrators of its atrocities to justice?

I realize that the situation is complicated. Skillful politicians are pretty good at pulling strings and pushing buttons. Milosevic strikes me as a wily, power-hungry sociopath who knew how to stay on top. One of the reasons why it was so hard to pin the genocide charges on him and make them stick is he knew better than to give a direct order. But that doesn't mean he didn't say and do things that played on Serbian pride and Serbian fears and made the whole disaster possible. Also, armies march at the politicians' whims. We're seeing this happen right now in the US. The politicians make a play on people's fears and next thing you know we're at war on highly questionable pretexts and everyone's supporting it (that's now changing, but back in 2003, people like me were a minority). And yes, he may not have been the most dangerous, but he was the most famous, and when you're trying to make examples you need to go after a well-known target.

I talked to my boyfriend about this. S was born and lived in Blegrade until a few months before Milosevic's government fell. He hated Milosevic. He blames him for the economic collapse Serbia went through in the early 90's, he blames him for the wars, he thinks Greater Serbia was all nonsense to begin with, and he's very bitter towards Milosevic AND NATO over the bombings in 1999. He was glad to see him end up behind bars, and he is glad Milosevic "died like a dog" in prison. He wanted to see him get convicted though. He seemed pretty certain that, one way or another, Milosvic would be convicted, if only because people less responsible for the wars in 1990s than Milosevic also ended up in jail. He didn't think it was going to be a fair trial, but he didn't seem to care - S just wanted to see Milosevic dead in jail and he got his wish. S also wanted to see Clinton testify on Milosevic's behalf. I admit, I was also kind of curious about how that would pan out. He also says (and I can't read or speak Serbian so I can't confirm this) that about half the people on B92.net who wrote responses to the articles were sad to see Milosevic go, and he's completely mystified by that. The man had and still has a powerful grip on the minds of Serbs, and I guess that's the part that concerns me. I don't think that Milosevic's passing closes the book they way people think it will. His supporters aren't going to go away. THey're going to make him a martyr, and that's not going to be good for Serbia. Not good at all. Given that reaction to Milosevic's death, I suppose it's not so surprising that Mladic and Karadzic are still at large.

In a way, this might end up being good for Serbia. Bosnia is suing Serbia for damages, and if Milosevic got convicted that would pretty much seal the deal in Bosnia's favor. But as it is, it's still an open question. SO, once again, Milosevic's death has ended nothing. It's just thickened the plot a little.

Mummpizz, I think it would have been far more convenient to find Saddam dead. But what do I know? I'm just a lab rat.

One question I have is what kind of treatment did Milosevic want in Moscow that he couldn't get in Holland?

Sometimes it is more convenient, yet dangerous, to fight against a myth than to fight against a person. Many charismatic leaders (and some of those with just a good hand at PR) did not die but "vanish" from the earth, spawning rumours and legends about their return, and some managed to die of natural causes making it look as if they've been murdered (Rudolf Hess, that stubborn idiot, was one of the last). I'm afraid Milosevic has turned himself into a martyr, too. Saddam Hussein must be pampered and looked after like a first-class patient in a luxury hospital to deny him that favour. A dead Saddam will be more frightening and powerful than the puny live one in the upcoming Iraqi civil war.

It sickened me to see people lighting candles for him and WEEPING, as if they'd lost a hero.

I guess their nationalism must mean everything to them.

*shivers*

It is depressing and frightening to see what people will put their faith in.

Same here, Di - I've been to Serbia and know how... stubborn Serbs can be. But I keep reminding myself that they're just a small minority; they just make good news. *sigh*

Berhael wrote:

Same here, Di - I've been to Serbia and know how... stubborn Serbs can be. But I keep reminding myself that they're just a small minority; they just make good news. *sigh*

Yes, quite.

It is strange, the way people attach themselves to a leader or figurehead. There are people who, to this day, revere Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and other great tyrants.

I myself revere Genghis Khan. What a "great" man.

Lord_Morningstar wrote:

moonfariegalena wrote:

the whole thing is SO much more complicated, Milosevic may have been one of the most prominent figures of the war, but by far he was not the most "dangerous" one....he was the politican...it is the amoral people who were executing the orders of the politican, and who are now at large continuing to do whatever they please, that we should worry about....

By that logic, shouldn't we have hunted down every last member of the Waffen SS and Imperial Japanese Army just to be certain that we'd won the war and bought all the perpetrators of its atrocities to justice?

that was not my point, I know better than to think we could ever do that....my point was merely that Milosevic was the tip of the iceberg, and those under him, "too small" to ever be caught or tried are just disseminating their evil even today, I know since I live in Croatia and have the (mis) fortune of working for an organization that deals with fighting corruption, org crime, trafficking....

I regard the death as 'suspicious'.

("Of course you would" I hear you say )

- Milosevic wrote a letter one day before his death claiming he was being poisoned to death in jail. The lawyer who advised Milosevic during his trial, Azdenko Tomanovic, showed journalists a handwritten letter in which Milosevic wrote: "They would like to poison me. I'm seriously concerned and worried."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/co ... 03,00.html

- Blood tests show that Milosevic's body contained a drug that rendered his usual medication for high blood pressure and his heart condition ineffective, causing the heart attack that led to his death:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/article/ ... 60,00.html

The media has spun this to make out as if Milosevic deliberately took the wrong drug so he could seek specialist treatment in Moscow and delay his trial. This is frankly absurd. Milosevic only had access to the drugs provided to him by UN appointed doctors and took them under close surveillance. Are we to believe that Milosevic had managed to set up a secret drugs lab in his closely watched prison cell and then substituted the drugs while under constant monitoring?

In March 2002, Milosevic presented the Hague tribunal with FBI documents proving that the United States government and NATO provided financial and military support for Al-Qaeda to aid the Kosovo Liberation Army in its war against Serbia.

This didn't go down too well at the Pentagon and the White House, who at the time were trying to sell a war on terror and gearing up to justify invading Iraq.

Milosevic made several speeches in which he discussed how a group of shadowy internationalists had caused the chaos in the Balkans because it was the next step on the road to a "new world order."

Evidence linking him to genocides like Srebrenica, in which 7,000 Muslims died, was proven to be fraudulent:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/article/ ... 24,00.html

There was actually a chance that he might be acquitted. That would be a huge embarassment to the US, but the trial wasn't going well. That's why he's been on trial for so long.

One sure way to tell if things aren't going the way the government likes - the topic isn't brought up any more.

The US is saved from Slobo because Slobo died of old age.

Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:

There was actually a chance that he might be acquitted. That would be a huge embarassment to the US

By the by, I find myself in an almost unique position of being happy because someone is dead.

Quote:

The US is saved from Slobo because Slobo died of old age.

They just got lucky again huh?

It wasn't just the US, but the whole of the UN that was saved from a huge embarrassment. And as we know, the UN's and the US's interests don't always go hand in hand.

From dudalb in Manwe:

The NY Times on Mar 14th wrote:

But at the United Nations detention center where Mr. Milosevic arrived in 2001, and at the tribunal where he wrestled uncounted hours with judges, prosecutors and witnesses, investigations continue into how he could have managed to take unauthorized medicines, which doctors believe worsened his health and probably precipitated his death.

A review of some undisclosed internal tribunal documents and of proceedings held in open court show that numerous warnings were issued that he was not taking the right medicine for his heart disease and his high blood pressure. Exchanges in letters and in courtroom hearings show that at least for the past two years, officials and doctors were aware that he was not taking his prescribed medicines at different times, or was adding his own, unauthorized medicines to the mix.

The most recent warnings came in December and January when the warden of the United Nations detention center advised in two letters sent to the court registry that he was unable to monitor strictly what medication Mr. Milosevic was taking because of the prevailing conditions, a reference to the relatively relaxed regime that allowed Mr. Milosevic to move around between his cell, his office and the visitors room and meet regularly with a stream of lawyers, witnesses and other visitors.

I think any conspiracies attached to Milosevic's death are misplaced.

I don't lament at Milosevic's death. It might not be the way people wanted things to go, but he got justice. Death is always the final justice-- and no his memory will not change to a world who reveres him as a freedom fighter or political prisoner.

My guess is he did it to himself in order to be allowed to go to Russia. I think he wanted to go to Russia becase his wife and son were there. Of course, in principle, his wife and son could have ocme and visited him. There's even an unmonitored "comfort room" for conjugal visits at the war criminal prison in The Hague. However, Milosevic's wife (and maybe his son? I'm not sure about the son, but I am certain about his wife) has an Interpol warrant out for her arrest, so she's pretty much trapped in Russia. A dangerous game, but Milosevic was a wily bastard, and I suppose he figured that if he did end up killing himself he'd have the power of a martyr. Serbia in general has a bit of a martyr complex ingrained in it, and Milosevic used that to his advantage throughout his political career.

It's not that far fetched that he'd have drugs smuggled in. He had a private office because he was running his own defense. He wasn't even that closely monitored outside his office until it came to light he wasn't taking his medicine. Hell, drugs get in and out of US prisons all the time.

The current conspiracy floating around Serbia is that Milosevic was not, in fact, buried in Belgrade. His wife rejected an amnesty deal offered to attend the funeral and wasn't there, even though she'd made it very clear previously she wanted to be present when her husband was laid to rest. So some Serbs are now thinking that the Belgrade funeral was a sham and he's actually been buried in Moscow.