board77

I file lawsuits because my rights to be an asshole to other people have been trampled.

Melly sent me the link to this story. What I cannot fathom is how this christian student and these christian groups (the ones in the article and the other wackjobs that they share a fringe belief with) can justify a lawsuit whose only goal is to allow them to be assholes to gays at school or at work. What I also don't get is why people can't just leave other people alone. You don't like gays? Fine, don't talk to gay people, don't watch gay t.v. shows, don't go to gay bars. You don't like Chinese people? Fine: lather, rinse, repeat.

More and more I am starting to believe the notion that a good number of conservative christians or fundies don't actually understand what jesus said. What did the man say? Love everyone, not love everyone but the faaaabulous.

The girl in the article says that she is fearful to speak freely about her beliefs because when she does, she gets called negative, intolerant, etc. Well, if you speak negatively or intolerantly you're going to get called such.

Gays aren't getting special treatment with policies against harassment. They are getting the same treatment that everyone else gets, which is not to be harassed at work for who they are be it christian, gay, or a circus performer. You go to work to do your job and get paid, not be an anuswad. You can do that on your free time.

Live and let live, eh?

Quote:

"The message is, you're free to worship as you like, but don't you dare talk about it outside the four walls of your church," said Stephen Crampton, chief counsel for the American Family Assn. Center for Law and Policy, which represents Christians who feel harassed.

No, the message is, you're free to worship as you like, but don't you dare use that right to harass other people.

Childish bunch of idiots. Don't they have anything better to do? Like showing a bit of the love Jesus was talking about..? Heard of Africa, for example? Or simply the bunch of miserable people you probably pass on your way to work? Use your money and energy to help someone - gays are - !! - not this world's biggest problem.

(Good post, TED.)

There seems to be two issues that this girl brought up:

1. My religious group should be able to speak freely about its beliefs

2. My religious group should get funding from the university


I agree with #1. Freedom of speech does imply the right to speak intolerantly of others. In the vast majority of cases, the government should have no place curtailing that. Don't wanna hear this girl and her little group blathering incoherently with their hate speech? Ignore it. Just like the KKK has a right to have their marches and protest meetings in public, so also should this girl's group.

On the other hand, I'm opposed to any and all funding of religious organizations by the government. Quite frankly, I'm amazed by those who want this. The slippery slope of government control over religion seems far too obvious to me.

The article glosses over the difference between free speech and harassment.

It's not a perfect article, but the situation made me angry.

You have a right to be an asshole. And other people have the right to tell you you're being an asshole. If you don't like this, then the solution is actually very cheap and simple: don't be an asshole.

Where is John Stuart Mill when you need him?

Everybody has the right to be an arse, but not if it causes anybody else problems. Put them in a locked room and let em rant.

John Stuart Mill's unpublished treatise on this topic: On the Rights of Being an Arse to Your Fellow Man.

John Stuart Mill's unpublished treatise on this topic: On the Rights of Being an Arse to Your Fellow Man.

That arse was brought to you by TED in two parts.

Well that's pretty obvious, they aren't christians. Yes the bible says to love everyone, it does also say god hates homosexuality but nowhere does it say to go around protesting these people and harassing them. Its curious that the word "christian" means 'followers of christ', I'd like to see just where Jesus behaved in the manner that they are imitating.

These are the kind of people I like to see knocked out.

These are the kind of people I'd like to knock out.

Quote:

Everybody has the right to be an arse, but not if it causes anybody else problems.

Define "problems".

Quote:

The legal argument is straightforward: Policies intended to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination end up discriminating against conservative Christians. Evangelicals have been suspended for wearing anti-gay T-shirts to high school, fired for denouncing Gay Pride Month at work, reprimanded for refusing to attend diversity training. When they protest tolerance codes, they're labeled intolerant.

I think this is wrong. If you stand for free speech then you need to be willing to hear viewpoints you don't agree with. And it cuts both ways.

Quote:

By equating homosexuality with race, Baylor said, tolerance policies put conservative evangelicals in the same category as racists. He predicts the government will one day revoke the tax-exempt status of churches that preach homosexuality is sinful or that refuse to hire gays and lesbians.

As long as they re-voke all tax-exempt status from all churches. Otherwise the government would be endorsing religion that promotes a gay lifestyle.

Quote:

Christians are fighting back in a case involving Every Nation Campus Ministries at California State University. Student members of the ministry on the Long Beach and San Diego campuses say their mission is to model a virtuous lifestyle for their peers. They will not accept as members gays, lesbians or anyone who considers homosexuality "a natural part of God's created order."

I hope they are excluding fornicators and adulters as well since they are setting such a high standard of virtue here. Of course if they use the same type of standard Jesus said was valid (If a man even looks on a woman to lust after her he is commiting adultery) then the group is probably going to be really small. Maybe a couple of blind guys?



I would agree the article has some issues. It is certainly not unbiased. I don't doubt the issue and situation could be framed to sound much more palatible to those of us that support free speech.

Do people have a right to be rude? I think people have a right to speak their mind and hold whatever opinions they want to. And we have a right to ignore them.

In a business setting I think the management should be able to say certain topics are off limits. We have one at work right now where we are not to discuss a certain person and her workman's comp situation now that she has quit. But I think this should be based on the fact that you have agreed to work for a certain company that is owned by a person or group of persons and they have the right to make the rules.

But in a school setting where the the tax payers are supporting the school I think such rules stifling free speech would be wrong.

Yes, a choice must be made - support freedom of speech, or argue that you have a right to not be offended by what you hear.

One of the things I really don't understand is why do some christians have it out against gays? What's so different between gays anc blacks that it's okay to harass gays, but not blacks? Does it have to do with the fact that the KKK has already done enough damage to blacks over the years?

In a business setting you should have the right to speak ill of anyone regardless of race, creed, gender or sexual orientation because that's what the goal of a business setting is... to piss on your fellow man.

Huh? Being gay is a sin, being black isn't. That's all that is.

In fairness, being gay is not a sin, acting on it is.

As to the question, I tend to support free speech, drawing the line at inciting violence or law-breaking or where public safety concerns step in. IOW, the old 'shouting fire' exemption.

Rationally speaking, being gay really isn't a sin, though I know that is why the gays get so much shit from the more hardcore christians.

I support free speech, as well. I'm not for tolerance speech codes, but this was a private institutions rules, and if a business decides to have tolerance codes, then that's their prerogative.

TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:

Rationally speaking, being gay really isn't a sin, though I know that is why the gays get so much shit from the more hardcore christians.

The Bible says it is or, at the very least, heavily implies it. If one is a Bible-following Christian, then yes, it is rationally a sin.