board77

This is currently going on in a local school district. The school football coach gets a late night phone call about a juvenile party involving alcohol. Coach goes to the address (off school property) and finds it is a fact. Coach then calls local police and tells them about the party. The police go to the address and do in fact find an underage drinking party. The officers make the decision to have the kids pour out the alcohol and send them on their way. The kid responsible is identified and the parent is notified.

Monday morning the school officials call the police department and want to know why the kids were not charged. The school is pushing the PD extremely hard for answers. NO parents of the kids invovled have called to complain, no parents have called at all.

Here's my questions. Does the government school have any business sticking their nose in how the police handled this situation? What if the parents of the involved children are perfectly happy with how it was handled? Does the school have more authority in how kids are raised than the parents? Remember, NONE of this happened on school grounds or during school time.

freddy

IMO it's none of the school's business - if the students were a) outside of school hours, b) out of school uniform, c) off school premises and d) not under the responsibility of a teacher. So long as, that is, that no-one was wandering into class under the influence.

However, it may be a good indication that some lessons in the law and in safe drinking might be appropriate. Perhaps the local police might be invited to have an interactive chat as part of a lesson?



Edit to sort out bad spelling

What obligations does your local police department have in discussing their decisions with third parties? If the school is offering to make police decisions for themselves perhaps the police can step into the schools and make educational decisions in return. Or wouldn't it work that way?
Part of growing up is learning how to handle alcohol and its dangers. Providing no harm has been done to another it seems a police record is a danger too far. It is counter productive to demonise alcohol. The good sense the police displayed seems more justifiable.
Leoba's idea of a lesson on alcohol abuse from the local police force would be a useful addition to the school curriculum. You guys see the ugly end of that abuse.

As I am sure you all know we homeschool our rugrats and this thing just wizzes me off. This is the kind of thing we have to deal with because the Government Indoctrination Centers (GICs) think they have more power than they do. Is it a good use of police time and $$$ to have two officers tied up for 6-7 hours (on overtime) arresting 30 juveniles who will in turn get little more than community service?

We do a huge amount of alcohol awareness programs for the GICs including a DUI go-cart and goggles to show what it does when you drive impaired. Of all the parties I have broken up I have NEVER had a driver that had been drinking, and yes I checked every single one of them.

I would love to go in and teach them about Creationsim-v- The THEORY of Evolution.

Sorry if I'm on a rant but this whole ordeal grinds against every grain of my parenting fibers. What if it was one of my kids and told Johnny that he could go ahead and drink. Isn't that my right as a parent?

Don't get me wrong if the school wants to hold it's atheletes or others who have signed an agreement with the school that they won't drink while they participate in an extra curricular activity, then have at it.

freddy

Sometimes schools develop this "the parents won't so we have to" mentality when it comes to discipline, but that seems way over the line.

Colleges do shit like this too. Both public and private. Part of it is an image thing. The media likes to emphasize the partying aspects of college life and this embarasses the colleges so they try to do away with the partying. There's so many rules, both at the public university where I'm a grad student and the small private university wehere I was an undergrad that it's virtually impossible not to break one.

My HS instituted a rat rule while I was there. If you became aware of drinking, smoking, or drugging while at a school-related function (and the defintion was broad) you had to report it or suffer the same punishment as the people actually involved. I thought this was retarded, so I broke it. Fortunately, the people drinking weren't caught and neither was I. But wow, that could have been bad.

Public schools are not the smartest of places.

Creationism v Evolution? You want a good read, Feredir.. go to Manwe on TORC. Good times.

TED, I remember Lali talking about that one.......... My mind is in no shape for it right now. Very rough day at work today.

I refuse to vote for a school levy for many reason but this is definetely one of them. The state of Ohio has ruled that the way GICs are funded is illegal and must be changed but it's like asking the fox to watch the henhouse. It's been over two years and nothing is changed. Here's how they do it. GIC district "A" is a strong suburban GIC with good funding and therefor has good money coming in. GIC "B" is an inner city GIC and cannot get 1/2 of it's kids to pass, therefor needs money because no one will live in the district. Soooooooo, you take money from "A" and give it to "B" to help fund them because they don't have money. The last I heard it's .60 on the dollar that goes to the poorer GIC, leaving .40 going to my GIC. In other words the majority of my money paid in taxes doesn't go to MY local GIC it goes to one that can't support itself.


I have to go back to work now.........
freddy

I would say the best course of action would be for the school and the police department to sit down and talk about the possibilites of having an assembly or something to discuss alcohol in general. I think the police probably did the right thing, but then we don't know all of the facts. It could also be that the group of people have been caught multiple times and the school is upset that these kids are continually given a slap on the wrist when it clearly isn't having an effect on them. So who knows. As someone mentioned about atheletes as well. Some schools do require them to sign contracts that include off school activities like drugs, alcohol, other illegal activities.. But I don't see how that would be grounds for the school complaining about an arrest or lack of. It would be more like getting kicked off the team for it etc.

Yep, the school is overstepping. Quel suprise.

This whole idea of schools having some kind of influence on students outside the schooling environment extra curricular activities) seems foreign to me.

Rat policy!!!! I think I would change schools, that seems like utter garbage. Although it does seem like no tolerance policies that are starting to crop at schools seems to think they can substitute rules with reason. *rollseyes*

Post secondary schools doing that sort of thing shocks me. My school dosen't that is education running a students life.

Also, it lends parents to the thinking that schools and teachers can do all the raising of the kids.

Feredir -

Your police department handled the situation as best as they could and probably in the most appropriate manner as well. It does not sound like the party had gotten out of hand where public danger was involved - vandalism, drunken teenage drivers, disorderly conduct, etc. So, what indeed did the public HS want the police to do? Why was it even any of their business, except for the fact that the group that got together was a school sponsored group (only when it was on school times?) Is there some weird liability law on the books that could have been used against the school if indeed some sort of harm had come out of this situation? If there was, I would be in disagreement with it.

I frankly HATE the nanny state. The sooner we rid ourselves of such notions, the better. Yes, there ARE certain situations where the police need to be called. Yes, in this instance, I think the police did what they should have done.

I feel sorry for any small furry/feathery creatures that cross paths with Freddy tomorrow while he's out hunting.



(I agree that it's none of the school's business. The officers did what they felt appropriate, and that is their jurisdiction and their area of expertise, not the school's. Of course, at this point, I'd be afraid to disagree with a certain husband of mine. He's on a rampage. )

Lali

(ETA: And now you all know why I rarely have a firm opinion--why would I need to when Freddy's opinions are firm enough for at least two people?! )

There are no liability issues. It's simply the school thinking they can do a better job at raising kids than the parents (in some cases I'm sure it's true). All the GICs second guess local PDs when it comes to the kids.

Now here's the kicker....... Many years ago when we first got our K-9s, they were NOT trained for drugs, the schools would not let us in, even after they have been burglarized and thousands of dollars in damage and items were stolen.

Why??? Because we might find drugs in the school!!!! I have been here for 13 years and we've gone into the school once with a drug dog (another jurisdiction). We've had some pretty heavy drugs come out of the school before (LSD, cocaine, mushrooms) but it is in no way an epidemic. Come on though, a stronger stance on alcohol than on drugs???

freddy

Hey, did lali just call me opinionated????

It's my opinion that public schools take an almost fanatical stance on kids and drugs/alcohol-- which is why you get stories like this one. I don't know why, but sometimes it seems that the school is looking to bust someone for something. Maybe it makes them feel better...

I think referring to public schools as government indoctrination centers qualifies you as opinionated Feredir.

DOH!!!!!! I guess I can be. I wish I could take credit for the phrase but I actually picked it from Neil Bortz when I listened to him while working mids.

freddy

I came from one of those government indoctrination centers, and they are the best thing for the youth of this country. *pause* What? Oh, I'm sorry, sir, FUTURE of this country.

There, there. You're such a dutiful cog in the wheel of society....






Lali

I went through 13 years of public school, and I'm pretty sure I would have been indoctrinated a hell of a lot more if my parents had taught me for that long, but my parents are kind of whack. I think it depends on the person, though I've always felt that most kids are better off in public school. I'm glad to have gone to school with 1600 other kids, and dozens of different teachers, because I think I was exposed to more diverse ideas and opinions than I would have been if I was homeschooled. But that's just the way it worked out for me, different people learn in different ways, which is why homeschooling is great for many kids.


In this case, I think the school definitely overstepped its boundaries. No matter how hard they try, public schools won't stop kids from drinking. No one can really stop kids from drinking without imposing the strictest martial law. I'd imagine that the police deal with underage drinking fairly often, it seems they would know how to handle it better than the school would.

Feredir wrote:

In other words the majority of my money paid in taxes doesn't go to MY local GIC it goes to one that can't support itself.

Well, coming from experience, the inner-city school should be getting this money, because they're the ones that need it. I attend high school in suffocating upper-middle-class suburbia, and our school has PUH-LENTY of money. We have probably 12 computer labs with 30 computers each for 1600 students. Compare that to the high school in the poorer city next to us where the parents can't afford to donate money to support all the shiny new technology and expensive sports uniforms, and it's not hard to see which school's students go on to receive a better college education based on their high school experience. Kids should all have an equal opportunity to get a good education, regardless of how much money their parents make. I'd definitely support a law like this in my state, because the kids at my school (such as myself) don't NEED all the fancy crap we get. I'd rather that more of our funding go to the poorer districts whose parents can't afford to finance the school.

This idea is a welfare state at it's finest. Take from the well to do and give to the poor. I guess I would have less of an issue with it if it was fair. Since we decided to homeschool, which I admit not everyone should do, if our children need any kind of special assistance they won't pay for it. An example is that if my daughter needs speech therapy for a minor speech problem the GIC will pay for the assessment but if it goes beyond that then we have to apy the bill. If we decided to send her to the GIC they would pay for treatment. I can go on and on but I'm trying to enjoy a stress free day.

freddie