board77

Crucifer wrote:

C_G, you don't seem to like the America you live in very much.

C_G doesn't seem to like ANYTHING much, really. I can't recall ever reading a post of his that was optimistic, cheerful, thankful, happy or even just plain silly.

So I'm not so sure a change of venue would improve his outlook.

Seriousness is not a crime. Neither is pessimism; especially not now.

Dave_LF wrote:

Seriousness is not a crime. Neither is pessimism; especially not now.

I never said it was.

However, constant, consistent pessimism can be wearying. If you are pessimistic about virtually everything, you risk being unable to enjoy anything...even simple pleasures. If you're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, always on the alert for the negative side, always looking for the worst in any situation...well, your life won't be very enjoyable. And suddenly, you realize that your life has passed you by and you spent most of your time being negative and ready for the worst.

And by doing so, you've missed the best.

(Just my take on it, that's all. I am no "goody-two shoes" by any means. But I decided years ago that, for the most part, I'd rather be happy than miserable...and it IS a choice.)

That may be, but the world needs a few good pessimists to do the worrying while everyone else is busy "thinking positive".

Dave_LF wrote:

That may be, but the world needs a few good pessimists to do the worrying while everyone else is busy "thinking positive".

I disagree. You can be a realist and still enjoy life. I call myself a "realistic optimist" and that's what I am.

Shit happens. It happens ALL the time...big and little. It will continue to happen, no matter what you or I do. You can either do your best to make your corner of the world a better place and enjoy what you've been given...OR you can constantly complain, moan and groan, point out every single flaw in every single person, place and thing and be miserable. And make everyone AROUND you miserable.

I don't think the world "needs" that.

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OR you can constantly complain, moan and groan, point out every single flaw in every single person, place and thing and be miserable

I don't think that's what we're talking about, though (at least it's not what I'm talking about--I have, in the past, proven fairly poor at divining what other people are talking about). I think much of CG's pessimism about the current state of the US is well-founded. I think the country at large is erring on the side of optimistic denial and making the situation worse by doing so. Under those circumstances, a little corrective pessimism is just what the doctor ordered. If at some point in the future we start to collectivly err on the side of gloom and fatalism, then it will be prudent to start pointing out everything we still have going for us.

Dave_LF wrote:

I think much of CG's pessimism about the current state of the US is well-founded.

I also disagree with this, but that is beside the point.

What *I* was talking about was that C_G doesn't seem to like ANYTHING. About any aspect of life in general. At ALL. He just seems...well...miserable about living.

I have never, ever seen him make a positive or upbeat post about anything. I'd be happy to be shown otherwise.

Well, it's just that C_G seems to have fundamental problems with the very founding of America. The rest of his life aside, why would anyone choose to live in a country with which they have fundamental problems, with everything from its founding up to the present day?

I don't find this discussion of another person's personality, likes, dislikes or whatever to be at all appropriate. If I came back to find this discussion going on about me, I'd be extremely pissed off.

I think it would be best to stick with the issues and not discuss a poster so personally.

I think the discussion started with an honest question to C_G from Crucifer. Crucifer has now re-stated the question even more specifically.

I agree that we should refrain from discussing another poster - but I'd really like C_G to answer the question. It directly relates to alost everything he posts and it certainly relates to this thread.

I can answer Crucifer's question: because the vast majority of people in the US have no choice but to live in the country where they are born. It is extremely difficult to get permission to settle in another country. You either luck into a job or marry a citizen.

So if one is unhappy with their country, moving to another isn't an option for many, many reasons. Americans don't have the same luxury people in the EU (and I'm assuming those living in British Commonwealth countries).

That's a very fair point, Eru, and one I didn't think of. However, I'd still like to hear C_G on this one.

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It is extremely difficult to get permission to settle in another country. You either luck into a job or marry a citizen.

I know a number of people who have become permanent residents of Canada without too much hassle. Yes, it took a bit of time, but not unreasonably so. And they aren't in any kind of "specialty" jobs or anything. There are other countries that would welcome US citizens as permanent residents...Poland comes to mind.

I work in the UK now, under a 5-year work permit. I intend to return to the states but MANY of my fellow teachers have become permanent residents after their initial 5 years were up. You take a test and pay a fee.

I didn't "luck into" the job. I applied for it. International Schools have job fairs every year in all major cities...and they are always looking for staff, due to the transient nature of the schools. You can literally live all over the world if you so choose.

If I hated the US as much as C_G seems to, I would be looking for an alternative. Even if it was "extremely difficult."

"If you don't like the country, why don't you leave it?" and equating dissent with hatred sounds suspiciously like the sort of bullying the Bush-ites subjected us to during his years, don't you think? You can love your country while disagreeing profoundly with its government.

Dave_LF wrote:

You can love your country while disagreeing profoundly with its government.

Yes, you can. And many people do and that is their right. But usually people who disagree with the country's government then harken back to the founding fathers' vision and intent. They dislike what they feel the country has become...how it has moved away from the original intent of the framers. They feel that we are on the wrong path; that we have strayed from the original way.

In this case, it seems that the poster in question dislikes the very foundation of the country itself and has issues with the way the country was formed and governed since its inception.


If you take issue with the basic tenets of how the country was formed and you disagree with the foundations of the the democratic process, then it is not just the government you disagree with - it is the country itself you don't like.

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In this case, it seems that the poster in question dislikes the very foundation of the country itself

I'm not sure what this is referring to; I read the opening post as a celebration of the principles the country was founded on combined with a lament over how far we've allegedly strayed from them.

jewel wrote:

I work in the UK now, under a 5-year work permit. I intend to return to the states but MANY of my fellow teachers have become permanent residents after their initial 5 years were up. You take a test and pay a fee.

It's getting in that is the hard part. Once you're in, it's not very hard to stay

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I didn't "luck into" the job. I applied for it. International Schools have job fairs every year in all major cities...and they are always looking for staff, due to the transient nature of the schools. You can literally live all over the world if you so choose.

Not everyone enjoys teaching like you do, so yes it can be hard for other people. I've seen many people coming through the expat boards talking about how they can't get to the UK because they can't get a job there. So yes, I do believe there can be quite a bit of luck involved, unless it seems you're willing to teach. If you're a person who doesn't like teaching at all, I fail to see how moving to a country you like yet are doing a job you loathe improves your situation.

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If I hated the US as much as C_G seems to, I would be looking for an alternative. Even if it was "extremely difficult."

If one has libertarian ideals, then I'd say the US is the best choice. Canada, Europe, and Australia would certainly be much worse.

I think it's incredibly wrong to make it seem like moving countries is an accessible and viable idea for people who are unhappy with the state of their country. I only scraped the surface with immigration as to why it would be hard. I didn't get into the money it takes to move, leaving behind friends and family, completely starting over, moving kids if you have them, them having to start new schools and all that come with that, language barriers, etc. In no way shape or form is it a reasonable suggestion to give someone unless their life is in peril and they need to seek assylum.

Dave_LF wrote:

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In this case, it seems that the poster in question dislikes the very foundation of the country itself

I'm not sure what this is referring to; I read the opening post as a celebration of the principles the country was founded on combined with a lament over how far we've allegedly strayed from them.

I'd agree. It's always seemed to me that CG doesn't like what the US has turned into and really doesn't like what's happening now.

Though really, I don't think it's any of our business if he criticizes the US or not or is happy or negative in his posts as long as he's not personally attacking anyone. That goes for every single member of this board. None of us have any obligation to be something that someone else wants us to be.

Eru, you are right, of course. But there are other countries to move to besides the UK...and many that have different value systems and less governmental "interference" and so on.

If I wanted to move to another country and teaching was a foot in the door, you'd better believe I would do it, even if it wasn't my favorite thing. It is relatively easy to get certified as an ESL teacher (you can do it on line for under $500) and many Eastern countries are always looking to hire. As you say, once you're there, it isn't that hard to stay...so teach for a couple of years while you consider your options.

And there are lots of reasons to move to another country besides your life being in peril. Better opportunity for some jobs, a chance for adventure, an education, a new experience, a way to see the world, a chance to start over...not to mention, yes, dissatisfaction with the state of the US right now. The people I know who have become residents of Canada did it because they were so disillusioned with the US government...they wanted to live elsewhere. So they took the necessary steps and did it.

You seem to have had an incredibly difficult time in your move...but not everyone has such difficulties.