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The United States is Broke

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The OG Borry
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Posted: Wed 19 Sep , 2007 11:31 pm
The best things in life are not things
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better be damned good for forty bucks 0_o
Borry

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Wed 19 Sep , 2007 11:32 pm
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I say at this point let the US economy fall apart and fail. I say this just so I can see the rest of the world try to scramble once it figures out with the US money gone what is going to happen. If there are no jobs in the US...where are the immagrants going to find work?

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Dave_LF
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Posted: Wed 19 Sep , 2007 11:32 pm
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Jude wrote:
Feeling existentialist today, Dave? Or did you mean "exits"? :Wooper:
Heh. I'm trying to think of way to spin it so it's more profound that way, but no such luck.


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 9:35 pm
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As of today, the Canadian and American dollars are equal in value:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... r=currency

(actually as of this afternoon; at closing it was worth 99.87 cents)


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eborr
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 10:27 pm
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at one level deep joy the capitalist world is falling apart, there is something deeply right about this.

Most of the major faiths have preached against greed, and there is clearly something very wrong with any society which extols greed as a virtue, can people be rescued, can the reserve banks provide a soft landing, in Western Europe probably yes, but elsewhere I dn't know.

The sad thing is that the misguided will suffer, the greedy fools who formed a queue outside Northern Rock may see their life savings expunged, but the slimy really greedy gits will survive, cos they always do.


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Riverthalos
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 10:47 pm
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Ara-anna wrote:
I say at this point let the US economy fall apart and fail. I say this just so I can see the rest of the world try to scramble once it figures out with the US money gone what is going to happen. If there are no jobs in the US...where are the immagrants going to find work?
Screw the immigrants...where am I going to find work?

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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 11:00 pm
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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Quote:
If there are no jobs in the US...where are the immagrants going to find work?
Mexico!! Quick everyone back over the fence!

True dat River :cheers:

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Soon you will see
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halplm
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 11:09 pm
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I'm all for massive inflation... I'm so far in debt it can't do anything but help...

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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 20 Sep , 2007 11:11 pm
I took the stars from my eyes, and then I made a map, And knew that somehow I could find my way back; Then I heard your heart beating, you were in the darkness too - So I stayed in the darkness with you
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halplm wrote:
I'm all for massive inflation... I'm so far in debt it can't do anything but help...
I think California is massively inflated enough :Q

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Lay down
Your sweet and weary head
Night is falling
You’ve come to journey's end
Sleep now
And dream of the ones who came before
They are calling
From across the distant shore

Why do you weep?
What are these tears upon your face?
Soon you will see
All of your fears will pass away
Safe in my arms
You're only sleeping


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Fri 21 Sep , 2007 3:17 am
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eborr wrote:
at one level deep joy the capitalist world is falling apart, there is something deeply right about this.

Most of the major faiths have preached against greed, and there is clearly something very wrong with any society which extols greed as a virtue, can people be rescued, can the reserve banks provide a soft landing, in Western Europe probably yes, but elsewhere I dn't know.

The sad thing is that the misguided will suffer, the greedy fools who formed a queue outside Northern Rock may see their life savings expunged, but the slimy really greedy gits will survive, cos they always do.
You're confusing self-interest and greed.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Lurker
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Posted: Fri 21 Sep , 2007 10:00 pm
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Evidence that the US is broke:

1 CAD = 1 US

:blackeye:

might go 1.00 Cad = 1.50 US by the end of the year!!!

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RELStuart
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Posted: Tue 25 Sep , 2007 5:32 pm
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I believe there was a story in the Calgary newspaper yesterday of the French PM saying Frace was broke.

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Lurker
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Posted: Tue 25 Sep , 2007 7:31 pm
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Are you sure it was the French PM not the French "MP" from Quebec? :blackeye:

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Wed 26 Sep , 2007 8:05 pm
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RELStuart wrote:
I believe there was a story in the Calgary newspaper yesterday of the French PM saying Frace was broke.
Yes, but was he talking about the economy?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Sat 13 Oct , 2007 8:30 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Thu 18 Oct , 2007 2:45 pm
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Japan and China lead flight from the dollar

To anyone with even the slightest knowledge of Austrian Economics, this really is bad news for the USA. It's overdue, too.
Quote:
Japan and China led a record withdrawl of foreign funds from the United States in August, heightening fears of a fresh slide in the dollar and a spike in US bond yields.

Data from the US Treasury showed outflows of $163bn (£80bn) from all forms of US investments. "These numbers are absolutely stunning," said Marc Ostwald, an economist at Insinger de Beaufort.

Asian investors dumped $52bn worth of US Treasury bonds alone, led by Japan ($23bn), China ($14.2bn) and Taiwan ($5bn). It is the first time since 1998 that foreigners have, on balance, sold Treasuries.

Mr Ostwald warned that US bond yields could start to rise again unless the outflows reverse quickly. "Woe betide US Treasuries if inflation does not remain benign," he said.

The release comes a day after the IMF warned that the dollar was still overvalued and likely to face "some depreciation in the medium term".

The dollar's short-lived rally over recent days stopped abruptly on the data, increasing pressure on US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson to shore up Washington's "strong dollar" rhetoric at the G7 summit this week.

The Greenback has already fallen below parity against the Canadian Loonie for the first time since 1976 and has touched record lows against a global basket. It closed at $2.032 against the pound.

David Woo, an analyst at Barclays Capital, said Washington was happy to see the dollar slide. "They don't care so long as the fall is not disorderly. They see it as a way of correcting the deficit. " he said.

Mr Woo said a chunk of the August outflows may have come from foreigners borrowing in the US during the liquidity crunch to meet needs in euros. "We think it may be a one-off," he said.

The US requires $70bn a month in capital inflows to cover its current account deficit, but the key sources of finance are drying up one by one.

BNP Paribas said America has relied on "hot money" from abroad to cover 25pc to 30pc of the US short-term credit and commercial paper market over the last two years.

This flow is now in danger after the seizure in parts of the market over the summer and after the Federal Reserve's half point rate cut, which has shaved the US yield advantage over other countries.

Ian Stannard, a Paribas currency analyst, said the data was "extremely negative" for the dollar. "It exceeds the worst fears. It is not just foreigners who are selling US assets. Americans are turning their back as well," he said.

Central banks in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam have all begun to cut purchases of US bonds, or signalled an intent to do so. In effect, they are giving up trying to hold down their currencies because the policy is starting to set off inflation.

The Treasury data would have been even worse if it had not been for $60bn of inflows from hedge funds based in Britain and the Caymans, which needed to cover US positions at the height of the credit crunch.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Thu 25 Oct , 2007 12:48 am
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Jim Rogers says it's a recession, dumps his dollars.

Telegraph


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Mon 29 Oct , 2007 4:48 pm
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Jim Kunstler has become one of my favorite internet personalities. Perhaps it's only because I'm a grumpy old man in training and he's already there, but I don't think that's the whole story; he seems to have open eyes and a clear head, and the ability to communicate what he sees and thinks in a straightforward (albeit grumpy) way. Here are excepts from today's blog entry; he updates it every Monday morning:

http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diary22.html
(link may change to a new entry sooner or later)
Quote:
When historians glance back at 2007 through the haze of their coal-fired stoves, they will mark this year as the onset of the Long Emergency – or whatever they choose to call the unraveling of industrial economies and the complex systems that constituted them. And if they retain any sense of humor – which is very likely since, as wise Sam Beckett once averred, nothing is funnier than unhappiness – they will chuckle at the assumptions that drove the doings and mental operations of those in charge back then (i.e. now).

The price of oil is up 53 percent over a year ago, creeping up now toward the mid-$90-range. The news media is still AWOL on the subject. (The New York Times has nothing about it on today’s front page.) The dollar is losing a penny a week against the Euro. In essence, the American standard of living is dropping like a sash weight. So far, a stunned public is stumbling into impoverishment drunk on Britney Spears video clips. If they ever do sober up, and get to a “…hey, wait a minute…” moment when they recognize the gulf between reality and the story told by leaders in government, business, education, and the media, it is liable to be a very ugly moment in US history.
...
The political assumptions one hears are the most astoundingly naïve and ridiculous, especially the ones that involve other countries and our relations with them. NY Times followers no doubt believe, along with Tom Friedman, that the global economy is now a permanent fixture of the human condition, and that soon it will transform itself into a colossal engine of “green” (i.e. benign) commerce. Friedman and his followers tend to forget the second law of thermodynamics when spinning their fantasies of a world that can harmlessly manufacture and market an endless number of plastic salad shooters from one side of the planet to the other without incurring any losses to the health of said planet.
My own assumptions are somewhat different. I think we’re likely to see a lot of nations scrambling for survival, initially manifesting in a contest for the world’s dwindling supply of oil (and oil-like substances). For instance, when viewing the globe, few people consider that Japan currently imports 95 percent of its fossil fuel. Japan has been a “good boy” among nations since its episode of “acting out” in the mid-20th century and has enjoyed a long industrial prosperity since then. But what happens when there is not enough oil in the world to be allocated rationally by markets among the powerful nations? Will Japan just roll over and die? Will they shutter the Toyota factories and happily turn to placid tea ceremonies. I think Japan will freak out, and it’s hard to predict exactly who will feel its wrath and how.
...
In the meantime, our own nation has become a society incapable of thinking, and the failure at all levels of rank, education, and privilege is impressive. If you listen to the people running for president – many of them overt clowns – you’d think that that all the comfortable furnishings of everyday life can continue with a few tweaks of the dials. They are cowards and it is possible that they perfectly represent a whole nation of cowards who deserve cowardly leadership. The danger, of course, is that when a non-cowardly leader finally does step forward in a desperate America, he will not shrink from pushing around a feckless people, or doing their thinking for them.


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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 29 Oct , 2007 9:21 pm
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...

Last edited by Eruname on Sat 01 Dec , 2007 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vison
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Posted: Mon 29 Oct , 2007 10:59 pm
Best friends forever
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Thank you, Dave!!! Excellent, excellent.

Eruname, thanks for the quote.

I haven't read this guy before, but be sure I will from now on.

We are, I fear, in for a rough ride. I won't live to see the end of it unless I live a very, very long time.

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