board77

It's quite likely that any alien civilisation advenced enough for inter stellar travel wold look at a CD or tape and go

Once they unlocked the secret of how to play it, they would probably think that humans are mad.

Jnyusa wrote:

Jude wrote:

I'm also very curious to know what "earth music" was included on the Voyager.

Johnny B. Good.

No, I'm not kidding.

(That was one of many pieces, and I don't know the whole list.)

Jn

That's the name of the song, right?

Do you know who performed it?

Chuck Berry

Actually, I think that's a bad choice for a song to play for aliens. Without having heard the song, I imagine that a great deal of its appeal is on the pun: the ambiguity between telling Jonny to be good (Hey Jonny! are you reading this? ) and the use of "B" as the initial of his middle name.

Not knowing any human languages, this would be completely wasted on an alien.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Go ... c#Contents
Borry

I can hear the Vulcans now, Jude.

"This song choice is extremely illogical."

I'd be up for a Shroud of Turin thread.

To be clear, my faith doesn't rest on its validity, but it was cool to learn that it could actually be real. (And, as I said, it can never be proven to have belonged to Jesus, since, well, duh, you get the rest.)


Lali

yovargas wrote:

Note that despite plenty of water and whatnot, scientists apparently don't believe that any lifeforms have succesfully formed here ever again. One could take that in several ways, one being that maybe water- and carbon-rich planets really aren't conducive to the formation of life.

Another is that a new guy on the scene simply wouldn't be able to compete with the experienced ones. What we really need to do is exterminate all life on Earth, return the planet to the state it was in a couple billion years ago, and see if anything comes back.

Chuck Berry's version of Johnny B Good was worthy of inclusion. Why not hope that the aliens rock?

Some J. S. Bach was included, although some scientist or other pointed out that including Bach was "bragging".

Can anyone explain why aliens are so keen on rectal probes?

Dave_LF wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Note that despite plenty of water and whatnot, scientists apparently don't believe that any lifeforms have succesfully formed here ever again. One could take that in several ways, one being that maybe water- and carbon-rich planets really aren't conducive to the formation of life.

Another is that a new guy on the scene simply wouldn't be able to compete with the experienced ones. What we really need to do is exterminate all life on Earth, return the planet to the state it was in a couple billion years ago, and see if anything comes back.

All those in favor of Dave's suggestion step forward...

:D

Dave_LF wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Note that despite plenty of water and whatnot, scientists apparently don't believe that any lifeforms have succesfully formed here ever again. One could take that in several ways, one being that maybe water- and carbon-rich planets really aren't conducive to the formation of life.

Another is that a new guy on the scene simply wouldn't be able to compete with the experienced ones. What we really need to do is exterminate all life on Earth, return the planet to the state it was in a couple billion years ago, and see if anything comes back.

But how long was that not true? How much time was there were after life arose but before life had really spread? How long before it would've become anything even remotely complex? I would think a really long time.

vison wrote:

Chuck Berry's version of Johnny B Good was worthy of inclusion. Why not hope that the aliens rock?

Some J. S. Bach was included, although some scientist or other pointed out that including Bach was "bragging".

Actually, if I remember correctly the guy in question was asked what he would include on the Voyager disk, and he said something more like, "I would include the complete works of Johann Sebastian Bach... but that would be bragging." Which is why they only put in three.

If you want to hear Johnny B. Good, rent the first "Back to the Future" video. That's the song the Fox character plays at the high school prom.

I think the idea was to include a bit of everything, to be completely representative of human culture.

The map of Earth was coded in binary ... because, you know, EVERYBODY in the universe speaks binary.

Jn

I'm sorry is Chuck Berry and alien? I feel like I've been confunded

ETA: vison, I actually had you in mind when I posted my inital question about believing in aliens but not God. It just seemed that non-believer wouldn't say "Aliens? Heck yes they exist" but "God, hell no don't be silly". So when you said you didn't believe in aliens it was was very much a mental "well duh". Why believe in anything when it's so easy not to believe?

Oh right, because believing is way more fun.

yovargas wrote:

Dave_LF wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Note that despite plenty of water and whatnot, scientists apparently don't believe that any lifeforms have succesfully formed here ever again. One could take that in several ways, one being that maybe water- and carbon-rich planets really aren't conducive to the formation of life.

Another is that a new guy on the scene simply wouldn't be able to compete with the experienced ones. What we really need to do is exterminate all life on Earth, return the planet to the state it was in a couple billion years ago, and see if anything comes back.

But how long was that not true? How much time was there were after life arose but before life had really spread? How long before it would've become anything even remotely complex? I would think a really long time.

It's possible that life emerged several or even many times during that period, but in the end only the one line was left. The problem is that pre-cells don't leave very good fossils. The number would be highly informative if there were any way to deduce it.

TheMary wrote:

I'm sorry is Chuck Berry and alien? I feel like I've been confunded

ETA: vison, I actually had you in mind when I posted my inital question about believing in aliens but not God. It just seemed that non-believer wouldn't say "Aliens? Heck yes they exist" but "God, hell no don't be silly". So when you said you didn't believe in aliens it was was very much a mental "well duh". Why believe in anything when it's so easy not to believe?

Oh right, because believing is way more fun.

Well, TheMary, thank you for thinking of me.

I guess I reach the sticking point with the word "believe". See, I "believe" in gravity, I believe in the Moon orbiting the Earth, etc., but since I have never seen an alien or heard from one, even indirectly, I can't say I "believe" in them.

But shall we speak of probability? I think Aliens are more probable than God, but I have an open mind on both. Only it's opener for Aliens. They seem reasonable, whereas God seems unreasonable. If there is a God, I will be very surprised. Whereas, if there ARE aliens, it will not be so surprising. A shock to the system, yes.

Dave_LF wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Dave_LF wrote:

yovargas wrote:

Note that despite plenty of water and whatnot, scientists apparently don't believe that any lifeforms have succesfully formed here ever again. One could take that in several ways, one being that maybe water- and carbon-rich planets really aren't conducive to the formation of life.

Another is that a new guy on the scene simply wouldn't be able to compete with the experienced ones. What we really need to do is exterminate all life on Earth, return the planet to the state it was in a couple billion years ago, and see if anything comes back.

But how long was that not true? How much time was there were after life arose but before life had really spread? How long before it would've become anything even remotely complex? I would think a really long time.

It's possible that life emerged several or even many times during that period, but in the end only the one line was left. The problem is that pre-cells don't leave very good fossils. The number would be highly informative if there were any way to deduce it.

I am trying very hard to follow both Dave's and yovi's line of reasoning, and I guess I am misunderstanding both of them.

The earliest traces that we have of life on Earth dates back to roughly 3.4 billion years ago, in the form of stromatolites.

How much older do you both need to go?

To summarize:
-I said something about how, as far as we humans know, life has emerged exactly once.
-yov challenged the idea that water etc. makes it likely that life will emerge given that there's water all over this place and it's still only emerged once.
-I speculated perhaps new forms *would* emerge here if we entrenched old-timers weren't hogging up all the resources.
-you pointed out that it probably took life as we know it some time to establish itself, and why didn't other forms emerge before that?
-I argued that perhaps they did, but just couldn't compete in the long run and didn't leave fossils behind (macromolecules are notorious for failing to do this).

At least, that's what I think happened.

Vision, can I just ask (and please don't take this the wrong way) what the point is in believing in something that you already know exists?

Crucifer wrote:

Vision, can I just ask (and please don't take this the wrong way) what the point is in believing in something that you already know exists?

Oh, I never take anything the wrong way!!!

I ask you the same question reversed: what is the point of "believing" in something you don't know exists? I guess because you want it to be true? Then there is "faith" which asserts that a thing IS true. No proof required, it just IS.

I dunno. Different world views, I guess.

I don't KNOW that alien life exists, but I assume it does. Logic, and the size of the universe, make it seem likely to me. Not quite the same as "belief".

As for the existence or not of a god, I can't really argue or discuss that very well, I always wind up offending people and what's the point? Believe what you like, as long as you aren't hurting someone or trying to impose your beliefs on others. That sorta suits me.