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The Megan Meier Suicide: A Case Crying for Justice

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 6:33 pm
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It's smarter to keep 13 year olds off the internet than allow them the access, especially if the kid has image and self-esteem issues. This doesn't make the internet bad, just the kind of place you need to pay closer attention. Hot, internet boyfriends? Not if she was my kid. Hot, real boyfriends? At 13? You have to be kidding me. If I had a daughter, she wouldn't know what a boy was until she's collecting social security* (**). In the words of that song, I know what boys like.



*If social security still exists in some form.
**Joke

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yovargas
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 6:50 pm
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:wave: nel.

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vison
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 7:22 pm
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Well, tp, as would be expected, another brilliant post! Well done.

However. As a parent, and, moreover, as a parent who has "seen it all", I will continue to err on the side of caution.

Having said that, though, I have been careful to tell the boys WHY they aren't allowed to be on these social groups. I hope we have good communication. If we don't, if I'm wrong, I'm not sure what I could do about it. Tay and I talked about this specific case. He thinks it's "awful", that this girl was bullied and tormented and ended up committing suicide. But he's also quick with words and quick to use words to hit the sore spots, he can be very cutting and sarcastic, and it is entirely possible that he could do some bullying of his own in that way. I don't fear only that he could be a victim, but that he could get caught up in some group thing. Kids do.

His school recently had a touring theatre company present a play about a dreadful murder that happened here a few years ago. A girl named Reena Virk was, at the end of a long horrible saga of misery, beaten and then drowned by a gang of people she longed to belong with. It was a case that caused a furore here, about teens and bullying and unsupervised wild kids, all the usual, and once poor Reena had been dead awhile, and the trials of her murderers were over, people just put it out of sight. The conditions and situations that lead to such tragedies still exist, as do the conditions and situations on the internet that led to Megan's suicide.

People claim, or at least some people do, that we are now "over-protective" of our children. Well, I dispute that. I think, in some hopeful ways, that people are RETURNING to caring for their kids. For a generation or two, parents seemed to think that being a parent was too much trouble, or that actually "raising" your kids was wrong, that kids should be given freedom. Kids don't need freedom, kids need involved and vigilant parents.

How are kids being "over-protected"? What hard struggles are they being "protected" from, supposedly?

Childhood lasts a long time in our society. Maybe too long. But since that's not going to change, I see it as a grave mistake to let young teenagers have too much "freedom".

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yovargas
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 8:01 pm
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There's always going to be things to be afraid of and things you could be protecting kids from. But there has to be a balance between locking them up in the basement forever vs letting them freely roam the streets. It's like, you know riding cars is dangerous and lots of people get hurt or killed doing that. But most of us don't let that fear rule our lives - you inform yourself of the dangers, take reasonable precautions, and go on with the business of living your life.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 9:01 pm
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
If the Drews wake up one night panicked because of some kind of violence done to their home (arson, bricks through windows, etc.) I don't think it'll be much of a surprise. People in all walks of life are despicable.

I think I share the sentiments of fellow posters about 13 being too young to be on the internet. At least bullying in person can result in more punishment or a good left hook to the jaw. I was almost never on the internet at 13. I didn't have AOL until I was about 15 or so. Myspace should always be a no-no at 13. Myspace actually doesn't allow 13 year olds on their site. Minimum age is 14, so shame on Mrs. Meier for allowing her child on it. Secondly, what the hell is she doing saying "okay, approve the cute boy none of us know."

M: This cute boy wants to be my friend.
Mom: Who is he?
M: Josh
Mom: Josh who?
M: Josh . . . from the internet.
Mom: That's a big no. You don't know who he is, or if he is even who he claims to be.

That is safe internet monitoring.

I wonder what the Drews financial situation is after this. Hopefully Mrs. Drew is feeling the painful financial pinch of internet douchebaggery.
TED, I know you are decades younger than I am, but thank you for agreeing with me on this point. Thank goodness my two boys did/do not seem to want to be part of the "social networking" net experience, at least my two have not, and I as a parent never did and hopefully never will need to deal with it again, after my eldest (a girl) DID have huge issues with it, she will shortly be 22, and I could not even imagine trying to supervise someone like her if she was indeed only thirteen nowadays. :( All I can add is that it is even MORE dangerous now than it was even five years ago. NO, I have nothing against the internet, but as a parent, you need to know what your preteen wants to do. That is ALL I am stating. And fer crying out loud, cyber friends for twelve and thirteen year olds are an insane idea, they have a difficult enough time dealing with the real world.

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vison
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 10:35 pm
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I agree, TheWatcher. As I've said elsewhere I don't think the internet is all that fabulous for kids for any reason. All this chat about how they can use it to research homework assignments, etc., is all very well and good, but for the 10 minutes they might be looking up some history project and the hours they spend doing other stuff, I think it's largely a waste of time. It's like people who say "there's so much educational stuff on TV!!!!" Sure. Who watches it, though? Try and get the average 13 year old to watch some documentary on Pandas or Macchu Picchu and watch their eyes glaze over.

We kid ourselves a lot in this world.

I spend a lot of time on the internet, almost totally "socializing". I write a lot, too. My computer has been an enormous boon to my writing. But oddly enough, if I have to "look something up", I almost always use a book.

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Axordil
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Posted: Sun 25 Nov , 2007 10:53 pm
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Actually I watched a lot of documentaries when I was 13, even younger. But I also watched Gilligan's Island because it was on. One must be knowledgeable enough about pop culture to avoid appearing as if one was raised by literate, opera-loving wolves.

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vison
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 1:07 am
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Axordil wrote:
Actually I watched a lot of documentaries when I was 13, even younger. But I also watched Gilligan's Island because it was on. One must be knowledgeable enough about pop culture to avoid appearing as if one was raised by literate, opera-loving wolves.
Well, maybe I was raised by literate, opera-loving wolves! :D What's wrong with that, eh? :rage:

When I was a kid we didn't even have a TV and when we got one we got 2 stations, so my TV exposure was pretty limited. We only got cable TV here about 12 years ago, until then it was 3 stations, and I don't think we were deprived. If it was up to me alone, the TV would go. I wouldn't miss it.

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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 1:43 am
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One doesn't miss it until one discovers that everyone else would. It's taken my coworkers nearly ten years to figure out that I don't watch the shows they watch--indeed, that I watch almost nothing at all. Since I won't discuss religion or politics with almost any of them, that pretty much leaves the weather. :D

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vison
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 1:57 am
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Axordil wrote:
One doesn't miss it until one discovers that everyone else would. It's taken my coworkers nearly ten years to figure out that I don't watch the shows they watch--indeed, that I watch almost nothing at all. Since I won't discuss religion or politics with almost any of them, that pretty much leaves the weather. :D
I dunno. I never watch anything anyone else watches, as far as I can figure out. My husband is the TV guy here. But he doesn't watch any network programs, except CSI, otherwise he watches sports and PBS and the Discovery channel. But we both enjoy the British detectives, he more than I do, but now and again I like them. "Are you being served?" is possibly as great as The Simpsons. Which I watch now and again.

But when people are yakking away about Survivor or Sex in the City or Desperate Housewives, I don't feel the least bit bad about being out of the loop. Some loops choke you.

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov , 2007 4:07 pm
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We let my youngest daughter have a My Space page as soon as she wanted one. I think she was about 13 or so. We just checked it once in a while and had to correct her once when she put her real name on it and once when she put her age down as being much older.

The myspace thing didn't hurt her at all, unlike activities with her actual, living & breathing marijuana-smoking friends. :neutral:

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10FTTALL
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/03/intern ... index.html

Authorities say no charges will be filed. This makes a lot of sense to me. No one can even prove the Myspace events caused the girl to commit suicide. Seems like her mom scolded her for using bad language replying to "Josh," and Megan became very upset that mom wasn't taking her side. She might have committed suicide just because she thought her parents didn't love her enough, or anything. You just can't prove anything when you've got someone who allegedly has all these mental problems. Really, if someone is that bad off, they shouldn't be out in public. They should be in a controlled environment where nobody is allowed to upset them. They certainly don't need to be in online social circles. She also may have lied about her age to get a Myspace account. I'm not sure when the rule was made, but currently you have to be 14.

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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 2:06 am
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Quote:
No one can even prove the Myspace events caused the girl to commit suicide.
Cause, no. I think everyone here would agree on that. Contribute, yes. Without room for discussion or debate, yes, they contribued.

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 2:08 am
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I don't much like that argument. I bet if you reeeeally wanted to get down to it, you could most accurately place "the blame" on the parents - self-esteem that low doesn't happen overnight.


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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 2:50 am
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The girl was depressed, probably clinically...possibly because of parental issues, possibly because of whatever the hell it is that causes kids to get depressed for no apparent reason. And sometimes it is exactly that, no apparent reason. Genetics? High Fructose Corn syrup? Who the hell knows...but it happens, and sometimes it happens to decent parents doing their best, no Mommie Dearest scenarios needed.

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10FTTALL
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 2:59 am
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Quote:
Without room for discussion or debate, yes, they contribued.
Perhaps, but she didn't leave a note. She didn't kill herself after the online exchange, but a while later. From what I've read, the FBI was not even able to find record of the "world would be better off without you," message. That info came entirely from her parents. If you're talking about what can be proven, I don't think you could prove Myspace even contributed any more significantly than ,say, people teasing her at school that day, her parents not letting her get her tongue pierced, getting a Big Mac instead of the Quarter Pounder she ordered in the drive through, or a million other annoyances that are very common to teenage life.

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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 3:04 am
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I think it's best I not discuss this here any more.

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vison
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 5:08 am
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When is your daughter going to be 13, 10ft?

Take it from the voice of experience: it doesn't matter how great you are as a parent, it can and does happen to good parents, too. I hope you never have that kind of heartbreak.

In the meantime, cut people a little slack.

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10FTTALL
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Posted: Tue 04 Dec , 2007 6:39 am
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Ok, I'm pretty confused. How should I cut anybody slack? By saying the Myspace incident was the sole reason for suicide? Even though my whole point is that we don't know that and can't prove it?

I never said her parents were responsible. There some doubt in their version, though, especially since computer experts cannot find the alleged worst message. That's not proof of anything, but it is awfully strange.

We really don't know. We're also assuming she told her parents everything. What if there was something else going on in her life her parents didn't know about either? How many teens do you reckon tell their parents everything?

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MariaHobbit
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Even mentally stable, *good* teens don't tell *good* parents everything, now that my 20 year old is telling me some of the stuff she did as a teen. :neutral:

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