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which is better for America?

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Lidless
Post subject: which is better for America?
Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 7:51 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Never mind the individual personalities (Clinton - cold, calculating, Osama - never made an executive decision), which is more important for America, a black president, or a female one?

Should the decision be based purely on internal America, or the world stage?


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: which is better for America?
Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 7:54 pm
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Lidless wrote:
which is more important for America, a black president, or a female one?
A competent one. Something we have not had for the past 8 years.

I don't see the above qualities (gender or race) as being that "important for America" at all.


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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 8:50 pm
Not so deep as a well
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I think either would demonstrate we've caught up with much of the rest of the civilized world, but I don't think that's enough of a criterion to base a decision on.

BTW, it's "Obama". "Osama" is the dude with the beard and the attitude somewhere in Waziristan.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: which is better for America?
Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 9:03 pm
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jewelsong wrote:
Lidless wrote:
which is more important for America, a black president, or a female one?
A competent one. Something we have not had for the past 8 years.

I don't see the above qualities (gender or race) as being that "important for America" at all.
20 years, otherwise correct.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 9:07 pm
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The presumption in these questions is always about the Democrats asking it. In a chat room once several years ago someone was talking about how we need a female president.

I ran through a long list of names of prominent female Republicans, and each time the other participant insisted that we need a female president, but that he wouldn't support the one I had named. He was stumping for one female in particular, after all. If the conversation had been black candidates, I could do the same exercise and would probably have gotten the same result.

I've no interest in the Hildabeast, and gender is not the reason why I think her presidency would be a disaster.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Lidless
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 9:10 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Ax - a deliberate error,

Never mind a competant one - they all bend like straw polls in the political wind -you'll never know in advance. Presume for the sake of argumment they are equal.

Black or female?


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jewelsong
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 9:14 pm
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The question is not one that can (or should) be answered. IMHO.

And I really dislike plays on the candidates names. "Osama" for "Obama" or "Hildebeast" for Hillary...or whatever. It just doesn't seem to serve much of a positive purpose.

I wish we could have had another 8 years of Bill, to be honest. I would've gotten the interns in line for him, if that's what he wanted.


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Ara-anna
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 9:19 pm
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From a world view point a Black President would probably do the most good. But as the only Black canidate has little or no experience....it could be yikes.

My prediction is and either an Obama/Clinton ticket or a Clinton/Obama ticket.

The reason I say Black President is their are certain factions in the middle east who always say the US is white bread and thus give them one more reason to hate the US.

The most qualified canidate for fixing the mess with the rest of the world, IMHO, is Bill Richardson. He has the absolute most diplomatic experience, or positive diplomatic experience.

As for the most competent canidate....well that doesn't exist.

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 10:35 pm
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Jewelsong wrote:
I wish we could have had another 8 years of Bill, to be honest. I would've gotten the interns in line for him, if that's what he wanted.
:LMAO:

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Thu 03 Jan , 2008 11:58 pm
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MariaHobbit wrote:
Jewelsong wrote:
I wish we could have had another 8 years of Bill, to be honest. I would've gotten the interns in line for him, if that's what he wanted.
:LMAO:
Too bad we couldn't find some for George. ;)

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Dave_LF
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 12:13 am
You are hearing me talk
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Hell; I'd've blown Bill myself to keep W in Texas.


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 3:08 am
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jewelsong wrote:
I wish we could have had another 8 years of Bill, to be honest. I would've gotten the interns in line for him, if that's what he wanted.
Yeah, we need to continue the 20 years of incompetence you were complaining about.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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halplm
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 3:46 am
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how about a Baptist preacher?

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yovargas
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 4:21 am
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I vote black for sure. For this thread and maybe literally if given the chance.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 4:54 am
Same as it ever was
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I am more disillusioned now about the 2008 elections than I have ever been about any other election in my life, which is notably a bit more than most of you. Gender and race play no part in my decision, integrity and honesty and sticking to one's "promises" do. The closest thing I find myself "liking" is Obama, while my mind says he just does not have the political savvy to survive and needs a few more whacks around the block to toughen himself up. Hillary is TOO scary, we all knew what she has been doing ever since 2000, and that alone scares me, she is TOO motivated, if that makes sense.

There are no GOP candidates worth their salt at all except for possibly McCain, and he has a snowball's chance in Hell of getting anyplace. On the Dem's side, I actually now am taking John Edwards somewhat seriously, but he will not win his party's nomination either.

All I can say is that Romney and Huckabee are just pure BS.

What comes about in 2009 will not be quality in any case, it will be more of who plays up to the press the best and convinces the multitude of Americans who cannot be bothered to even care about such things over which button to push on their ballot.

We get the crappy officials that we deserve, and by and far on the national scene, they all suck, whatever they suck is up for debate.

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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 4:58 am
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How about Ron Paul, Beth? What do you think of him?


Lali

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The Watcher
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 5:25 am
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LalaithUrwen wrote:
How about Ron Paul, Beth? What do you think of him?


Lali
Err. how do I express this? I am all for libertarian stuff when it comes to certain things, but, I see corporate greed and unfair tax advantages crippling the working classes, we need to have certain things within our affordability range, like health insurance and state tuition for college and such, and those tings have been climbing into the near double digits in some cases, and there is NO reason for it. The free market does NOT work unfettered, look at what has happened to the airline industry or private insurance or even trying to pay on your own without health insurance?

Sorry, Lali, in this phase of my life, what we have here in America does NOT work, and as far as it applies to healthcare and secondary education, I think we NEED some srt of basic plan in place, and as far as corporate greed goes, well, what can I say? The wealthiest 5% are now vastly above where the median incomes are, and, no those 5% are not inventors or anything else, they are mostly the heads of big corporations. They get their perks at the expense of the people working for them. Should you or I be rejoicing because some asshole cut costs enough to earn himself the lucrative bonus? What is WRONG with this picture? Greed is the most disgusting thing I can find lately in way too many of even some of my own friends. It is a bigger lure than alcohol, gambling,sex, you name it. Get what you can and spend it on some sort of lifestyle that is just grossly wasteful and exhorbitant. I mean, totally over the edge! Why deal with old clothes, go out and buy all new ones, your furniture is a bit dirty? Replace it!! You are sick of carpets? Replace them all with hardwood floors. Never recycle, never try and reuse, justt buy and consume and consume and consume - that is all that we mostly do! And we in America seem to worship that greed!! And, we also seem to think it will never come to a stop. I find it disgusting, totally without merit, and making me want to go back and state, yes, there is liberty and justice, but at what price? Do we do it like there are no consequences for our own selfish actions? At the same time, I want to say we also need to quit that whole "it takes a village" sort of mentality. Whose village? Certainly not mine. Heck, if you call me on my phone and come up unidentified, I will not even answer your call.

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Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 miles per second, is a cow that has been dropped from a helicopter.

Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

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Glaciers melting in the dead of night and the superstars sucked into the supermassive...
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jewelsong
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 9:28 am
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
Yeah, we need to continue the 20 years of incompetence you were complaining about.
Obviously, we disagree about Bill Clinton's competence. Don't we?


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halplm
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 11:02 am
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indeed, what did he ever do?

I'm not a fan of any of the candidates particularly.

all of the democrats are far too to the left for me personally, but even the ones that might be more centered, I don't trust in any fashion.

All of the republican candidates seem FAR too much like the typical "say what's necessary" politicians. I don't trust any of them.

So where does that leave me personally?

Clinton is out, because I didn't like Bill, and Hillary is worse than he was.

Edwards is out because he's a moron and just a product of his money.

Obama is far left of either of them, and thus I don't want him, although he is very well spoken. I think he'll win the nomination at this point, or else the dems will not have a chance.

Romney I've never liked, because he's way far to the left on anything I care about. And frankley, any republican that can win in the new england area isn't really a republican.

The same goes for the former mayor of New York.

Thomson would have been my choice, but he hasn't even run a campaign, much less a platform that I care about.

Which brings me to the final two possabilities... McCain and Huckabee...

McCain is more of a known quantity, and I'm not impressed with him.

Huckabee has been more to the left than I like as the Governer of Arkansas... but that may be what has been needed for that state.

So, the only real question for the primary race is... who can win?

For the Dems... The only one I think can possibly win is Obama, but I think that's a stretch. He is too far to the left to get centrists, but he is a good enough speaker to get the nomination.

For the Republicans... Romney has the money, but he will never win the republican base, not only because of his religion, but also because he is far too liberal. I think Huckabee will be the nominee, because despite what the media believes... there is an extremely conservative population in the US that has elected Bush twice, and is not happy with the current Congress, even though for now they are a bit disillusioned.

So where does that leave us? Personally, were I to predict... I'd predict Huckabee is the next president. However, I don't trust him yet in any way. He sounds good, but I thought the same of Bush, and he's spent more than Clinton did. He also scares me with his talk of foriegn policy.

As much as I hate to say it, I fear this election will come down to one issue, and one issue alone... and that is abortion. Huckabee is the only real pro-life candidate, and thus he will get the republican nomination. Whoever the dems nominate will be the pro-choice candidate.

Thus, we're left with the 50-50 split we've had for the last two elections... and there's no telling where we'll end up. As usual, it will be the swing states that decide it. Clinton can't win nationaly, there are too many people out to vot against her. Guiliani can win New York, which would basically give it to the republicans. Huckabee can win the south against all but Obama. Obama is the total wildcard. If he gets the nomination, he will be hard to beat all over. But with that said, and as much as it saddens me to say it, I don't think this country will elect a black man as liberal as he is.

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jewelsong
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Posted: Fri 04 Jan , 2008 11:47 am
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Quote:
I'd predict Huckabee is the next president.
That would be enough to keep me out of the country for the next 4 years.

And I doubt very much that abortion will be the defining issue.


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