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jewelsong
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Posted: Sat 23 Feb , 2008 11:01 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
Home School Students have much more put into their measuring cup, that is all..
Some do, I suppose. My experience with home-schooled children is mostly negative. I know that some parents do a good job and sometimes home-schooling may be the best option for the child. However, I have been a teacher for more than 30 years now and most of the home-schooled children I have encountered (whether they were coming into the public schools after being home schooled or currently in a home-school situation) had numerous educational and social deficits.

Just a sampling of what I have encountered at various times:
  • Children who could not read or write at age 10+.
    Children who had learned only one subject area - learned it very well, perhaps...but were sorely lacking in others.
    Children who had no idea how to interact with other children. They were like little adults...unable to fit into a group of children (unless the group were from the same, small sample of home-schooled children.)
    Children who were malnourished or abused...and no public school to catch it and report it.
    Children with very odd ideas about how the world functions.
    Children with treatable) learning disabilities which would have been caught in a more public setting.
MOST of the children I have encountered who were home-schooled had parents with a very specific agenda. There is supposed to be some regulation of home-schooling, but in reality, the Dept. of Ed doesn't monitor it very well and so these kids are at the mercy of whatever their parents choose to teach them...or to not teach them.

Lali, I am not saying that this describes your kids. However, this IS my overwhelming experience with children who have been home-schooled.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb , 2008 12:12 am
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Feredir wrote:
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
I wouldn't send my future kid to a virtual school. I'm not fan of homeschooling either. I don't have any strong feelings against it, but I do think that the socialization is important despite its cruelty. The cruelty doesn't bother me all too much. I had a cruel time in public school (albeit nothing too horrible to make me want to drop out). I think it makes some kids a bit stronger mentally. Does it work for all? No, and for those there is home or virtual school.
So you too buy that home schooled children aren't socialized like public school kids? Can you provide some statistical proof of this?

Oh, don't forget that everything has to be equal in public schools. Tommy's parents buy him very nice Crayola markers and Tommy is very excited to take them to school. Tommy gets there and says "look teacher!!" I've got brand new markers." Teacher says, "Oh those are very nice Tommy. Now I'll just take those and put them with the rest of the markers so everyone can share. You know that Sammy doesn't have these nice markers and we need to be fair to him."

Tommy, very sad that the teacher took his markers sits at his desk all day and learns nothing. Except how socialism works.

This is exactly what happens. I had several friends who were outraged when this happened to their kids. Of course they didn't fight it, they just bought the cheap K-Mart brand from then on out.

I am seeing the affects of this at work. Many in this generation expect to come in and make what our officers that have been there for 20 years. If they don't, all the do is whine that it's not "fair." Why? Because that is the way they were raised. Everything has to be equal and sorry for those that have worked their butts off to EARN what they have.

freddy
Err. I have never seen that in the public schools, ever. What TJ has for school supplies are HIS school supplies, and yes, some things ARE asked for the classroom itself - tissues, handsoap, wipes, dry erase markers, which are pooled, but TJ is hardly going to sit at his desk all disillusioned and fret.

Fair is fair. Some parents do an EXCELLENT job of home schooling their kids, and also ensuring that the children get adequate and healthy stimulating social interaction with their peers.

But then grant us, those of us who use public schools, that we are not lazy or uncaring, fer crying out loud! It all comes down to the parents, and maybe the schools if one is using them, and how the child progresses. TJ has a learning disability, he is far above normal IQ, but I know he will never have an easy time of it unless he chooses a career that is very hands on, that is the BEST way that he learns and the best way to keep him engaged. But, the schools also know that, so while he may not always get the best grades in certain subjects, depending on how those subjects are taught, I try and help at home, and he DOES learn. That is something he WILL need to deal with his whole life, so why gloss it over now?

Frankly, I think overprotecting kids is just as bad as ignoring them. No particular people here come to mind, but I DO know of persons that home school simply because of a religious agenda or fear that their children might actually be exposed to "other views" which the parents find frightening. THOSE are the WRONG reasons to home school. But at the same time, there are also terrible public schools, even private ones, or particular teachers who have their own issues to contend with, nothing bad, just that they are not highly effective teachers.

But, when it all boils down, it is the parents that matter the most. WE know our kids, we know what motivates them, we know how to spark their interests, and that is all it really takes. No, not all of us are going to raise future Albert Einsteins, Clarance Darrows, Marie Curies, or Abraham Lincolns. In fact, most of us will be happy if our children get a further education, find a partner, and have some modicum of success and happiness. Whether my children agree with me politically or religiously matters not one iota, the world is a big tough place, all I want to do is provide the means to make them able to take it on and make their own niche. My kids will all have the brains and the questioning abilities to see past the 80% crap that is thrown at us every day. :)

edit for typos in the first paragraph.

Last edited by The Watcher on Sun 24 Feb , 2008 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Feredir
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb , 2008 12:45 am
 
 
Watcher,
It does happen here in our area and also in the northern part of the state where my parents live (I've talked with my mom about it).

In no way did I mean to imply that parents that send their kids to public schools are lazy or uncaring. I know better than that.

I also agree that some home school to sequester their kids, which is bad. I have the unusual ability to provide my kids with the "bad things" that are out there. I also show my youth group kids that go to public and private schools the same thing.

My bottom line is parents have to choose what is best for their children. People shouldn't make blanket statements about home schoolers being less socialized when they really have no contact with home schoolers. Do what is best for your kids and be involved in their lives.

freddy


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Pippin4242
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb , 2008 4:00 am
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freddy, that's not a problem with state schooling. It's a problem with tax. What sort of situation must the state schools in your area be in to pool children's resources?

*~Pips~*

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The Watcher
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Posted: Sun 24 Feb , 2008 4:31 am
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Pippin4242 wrote:
freddy, that's not a problem with state schooling. It's a problem with tax. What sort of situation must the state schools in your area be in to pool children's resources?

*~Pips~*
Frankly, Pips, I doubt it happens at all, unless such supplies are designated as "pooled resources." I am not doubting what feredir says he has heard, I just doubt that it is true. The animosity about public schools sometimes runs very high, and lots of strange things get thrown into the equations.

The last I heard, public schools are still mostly run by local school boards, and if one hates the school board members, one can vote them out. There are no state or federal laws that mandate sharing personal school accessories or equipment, it is at best one of those weird things passed around by those who are afraid of their local school systems.


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Feredir
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Posted: Mon 25 Feb , 2008 1:25 pm
 
 
All I will simply say to this is that I do my own research and gathered the facts for myself. It is not "what I heard" but what I found.

It is as I said, they want everyone to be equal.


freddy


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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Mon 25 Feb , 2008 5:04 pm
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jewelsong wrote:


Just a sampling of what I have encountered at various times:
  • Children who could not read or write at age 10+.
    Children who had learned only one subject area - learned it very well, perhaps...but were sorely lacking in others.
    Children who had no idea how to interact with other children. They were like little adults...unable to fit into a group of children (unless the group were from the same, small sample of home-schooled children.)
    Children who were malnourished or abused...and no public school to catch it and report it.
    Children with very odd ideas about how the world functions.
    Children with treatable) learning disabilities which would have been caught in a more public setting.
MOST of the children I have encountered who were home-schooled had parents with a very specific agenda. There is supposed to be some regulation of home-schooling, but in reality, the Dept. of Ed doesn't monitor it very well and so these kids are at the mercy of whatever their parents choose to teach them...or to not teach them.

Lali, I am not saying that this describes your kids. However, this IS my overwhelming experience with children who have been home-schooled.
That doesn't surprise me at all, jewel. Would I be correct to assume that these are homeschooled kids who are now attending a public school? The social issues are one thing and cannot always be attributed to homeschooling. (Sometimes it can, for sure, but sometimes kids are just different. That is true whether kids are homeschooled or sent to public or private school.)

What happens quite often is that you have a child who is put into a public or private school. That child begins to struggle for some reason. Maybe he is autistic, maybe he is dyslexic, maybe he has some other learning issue. If the parent had gotten lucky, a teacher might have directed that student into special services. Unfortunately, what happens all too often (and I know from personal accounts) is that the child is ignored or doesn't get the services he needs. It seems like, for whatever reason, that parents have to fight for special education services in many cases.

(And, for the record, although we pay taxes like everyone else, our school system was not required to provide special services to our daughter as she was being homeschooled. To be clear, I would have been willing to take her to the school whenever they wanted for speech therapy; I would never have expected anything beyond that, beyond what they were providing to the public and private school kids.

Don't even get me started on (practically non-existent) special services for dyslexia....)

Anyway, so some of those parents pull their kid out of school and try to homeschool him. Sometimes that works out great; sometimes it doesn't and the kid will end up back in the school system, still not knowing how to read or whatever.

And, yes, sometimes parents say they are homeschooling and they are not; they neglect their kids, abuse them, don't teach them anything at all, or whatever. It's sad but true, just as it is sad the number of kids who are sent to public school and suffer the same things at home. Just because they are sent to a school doesn't mean that the abuse or neglect will be spotted. It may make it more likely but not always.

Do I know "bad" homeschooling parents? Sure, I know a few, not any abusive or neglectful parents, though. I would report that.

In short, there is no perfect system, and I maintain what I've always said. I don't care how parents educate their children. Do you send your kids to a public school? Great! I hope that works for you and your kids. Do you send them to a private school? Also great, and I also hope that works for you. (We can't afford that.) We want to homeschool; it works for us. I follow the law and the checks and balances that are in place in Ohio; they are neither too lenient nor too stringent.

One thing I like about public charter schools (which these virtual schools are) is that they provide some very healthy competition to public schools, and the hope is that maybe they will force the public schools that are lagging behind to get their acts together.

One thing several homeschool families I know do is have their high school kids take a few classes at the public school. Then their kid can participate in sports or extracurriculars. The school gets some money from the state for that. The kid gets some experiences that can't be replicated in a homeschool setting and gets some classes that are harder to replicate (or impossible) in the home setting. Win-win, imo.

This is the kind of thinking I like to see--outside of the box.

Lali

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Mon 25 Feb , 2008 10:43 pm
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jewelsong wrote:
Just a sampling of what I have encountered at various times:
  • Children who could not read or write at age 10+.
    Children who had learned only one subject area - learned it very well, perhaps...but were sorely lacking in others.
    Children who had no idea how to interact with other children. They were like little adults...unable to fit into a group of children (unless the group were from the same, small sample of home-schooled children.)
    Children who were malnourished or abused...and no public school to catch it and report it.
    Children with very odd ideas about how the world functions.
    Children with treatable) learning disabilities which would have been caught in a more public setting.
What is wrong with that particular one? The school atmosphere is very artificial, very far removed from the real world, and very little of the interaction learned there has any real world application ... unless one is learning how to survive in prison.

They know how to behave in the real world. I can see how that could be a disadvantage in the public school.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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