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MariaHobbit
Post subject: Virtual Schools
Posted: Wed 20 Feb , 2008 9:51 pm
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Taxpayer dollars funding kids to go to virtual schools online. CLICK
Wow, what a concept!
Who'd have thunk it?

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Wed 20 Feb , 2008 11:21 pm
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:scratch: That would be cool. My kids would love it. I would have loved it too...kinda jealous they didn't have this sooner.

Seems to me it would or could be the best of both worlds, home schooling with the public school interaction.

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Lily Rose
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 3:38 am
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I like the idea. I wish that something like that had been available when I was in school, and it if ever becomes available in my state, I will be one of the first to get on board.

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Nienor SharkAttack
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 11:06 am
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Well, I'm no fan for the same reason that I'm no fan of home schooling in general: to me, the social and socializing aspects of attending school are extremely important. School is about a lot more than textbook knowledge.

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 4:44 pm
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What state are you in, Lily? I was surprised to find that Missouri also has such a program. My two older kids probably would have liked that. My youngest is a socialite, though, and would pine in such a setting.

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The OG Borry
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 6:04 pm
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I'd bet I would have been a large boy if I didn't go to public school, I burned most of everything I ate at lunch breaks or recesses playing games and running around. I played soccer out of school but I don't know if I would have wanted to stick with it, possibly just for the social interaction. But then my only view of social interaction would be highly competitive. Plus neither of my parents would be able to do it so kind of moot, but its fun wondering how you would have been if x had changed or y had happened.
Borry

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Feredir
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 7:40 pm
 
 
Nienor SharkAttack wrote:
Well, I'm no fan for the same reason that I'm no fan of home schooling in general: to me, the social and socializing aspects of attending school are extremely important. School is about a lot more than textbook knowledge.
Same old stereotypical response. How many home schoolers do you know? I'd venture to say if you took any of the one's I know and a public school kid, put them side by side, you couldn't tell them apart. Well, except the home schooler would likely be smarter.

freddy


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 7:43 pm
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Brilliant! Homeshoolers getting their school money back!

And instead of the abuse called socialization in public schools, you can get real positive socialization - and get the school to pay for it!

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 8:29 pm
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Nienor SharkAttack wrote:
Well, I'm no fan for the same reason that I'm no fan of home schooling in general: to me, the social and socializing aspects of attending school are extremely important. School is about a lot more than textbook knowledge.
Yes, and to others of us...the social and socializing aspects of regular school were incredibly cruel and left scars far worse than anything I've experienced in the nine years since I dropped out of high school (i.e. NOT experiences I needed to prepare me to "deal with the real world.")

Life is about a lot more than textbook knowledge - and those of us who WERE homeschooled (and as such, can do more than speculate about its effects) continued to learn about life through both academic and non-academic experiences during our homeschooled years.

Homeschooling is NOT a panacea, and there are certainly risks. In particular, my own experience was badly affected by issues specific to my mother (the homeschooling parent). It was actually NOT a fun time for me at all, and I wouldn't want to provide a blanket defense of it. But I again have to speak out when this sort of unfair and inexperienced statement about homeschooled kids is made. While homeschooled, for four years, I:
- Competitively swam 5-6 times a week, with (mostly) public school students my own age
- Went to gymnastics practice 3 times a week, with a mix of public/private/homeschooled students
- Played in a local youth orchestra 1-2 times per week, with mostly public school students
- Roller skated once a week, with other homeschooled students
- Went to church and Sunday School every week (Catholic), interacting with almost all non-homeschooled people/children
- Sang in church choir once to twice a week (mix of public and private school kids, usually)
- Did other "enrichment" activities with a mix of students (e.g. at local museums)

I was CONSTANTLY interacting with other students of all sorts, on more than a daily basis. And that was something that my mother did a wonderful job of ensuring - as did the other homeschooling parents we knew, you know, the conservative Christian ones that everyone likes to stigmatize. It is infuriating to me that when people assume that homeschooling means that you sit in your home with a textbook and just see your parents and siblings every day. Not necessarily at all.

I assume the same would be true of "virtual schools." It could be a socially isolating experience, or it could be a socially rich experience, depending on what effort the parent(s) and student make.

I have no objection to the assertion that the social and socializing aspects of growing up are very, very important. But I have an objection to people assuming that their (public or private) experience was superior to the experience of a homeschooled child, without more data. It is condescending and aggravating.

Last edited by tolkienpurist on Thu 21 Feb , 2008 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Feredir
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Posted: Thu 21 Feb , 2008 8:44 pm
 
 
TP,
I agree with you 100%. Home schooling is not for everyone for two reasons; 1) not good for every kid; 2) not every parents can handle it.

Saying that there is a lack of socialization for home schoolers is like saying that all public school kids are having sex before they're ten and doing illicit drugs in the bathroom. It just isn't that way.

freddy


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Donernilwen
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 12:35 am
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Freddy and TP, :yes: . I was homeschooled and my brother is doing an online thing right now. He's probably the most social person I know of. He gets his work done online as fast as possible and then is out the door.
One girl in my ethics class last semester made a comment about homeschooled kids being socially awkward and I'll be honest, I rolled my eyes and was really annoyed/mad- I'm biased and probably overreacted. I guess its just easier to remember that one "weird" kid, who had an alternative form of education, and overlook all the "normal" ones.
My senior year of high school I went to a public school and I met some really awkward kids there, but I guess no one is going to question their personality because they went the traditional route.
Everyone has an awkward stage in life though right? I think its hardly fair to judge a 13 year old based on their education. Those are just messed up times. :blackeye:


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 1:09 am
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I wouldn't send my future kid to a virtual school. I'm not fan of homeschooling either. I don't have any strong feelings against it, but I do think that the socialization is important despite its cruelty. The cruelty doesn't bother me all too much. I had a cruel time in public school (albeit nothing too horrible to make me want to drop out). I think it makes some kids a bit stronger mentally. Does it work for all? No, and for those there is home or virtual school.

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Feredir
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 12:54 pm
 
 
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
I wouldn't send my future kid to a virtual school. I'm not fan of homeschooling either. I don't have any strong feelings against it, but I do think that the socialization is important despite its cruelty. The cruelty doesn't bother me all too much. I had a cruel time in public school (albeit nothing too horrible to make me want to drop out). I think it makes some kids a bit stronger mentally. Does it work for all? No, and for those there is home or virtual school.
So you too buy that home schooled children aren't socialized like public school kids? Can you provide some statistical proof of this?

Oh, don't forget that everything has to be equal in public schools. Tommy's parents buy him very nice Crayola markers and Tommy is very excited to take them to school. Tommy gets there and says "look teacher!!" I've got brand new markers." Teacher says, "Oh those are very nice Tommy. Now I'll just take those and put them with the rest of the markers so everyone can share. You know that Sammy doesn't have these nice markers and we need to be fair to him."

Tommy, very sad that the teacher took his markers sits at his desk all day and learns nothing. Except how socialism works.

This is exactly what happens. I had several friends who were outraged when this happened to their kids. Of course they didn't fight it, they just bought the cheap K-Mart brand from then on out.

I am seeing the affects of this at work. Many in this generation expect to come in and make what our officers that have been there for 20 years. If they don't, all the do is whine that it's not "fair." Why? Because that is the way they were raised. Everything has to be equal and sorry for those that have worked their butts off to EARN what they have.

freddy


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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 3:05 pm
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I was public schooled, and am a socially awkward recluse. I can't talk to groups and can only stand to have a conversation one on one- and then only for a few moments. If I'm in a group, I just tend to listen. I'm bound to be a boring m00ter. ;)

I can't say that public schooling did anything to correct that, and might even have enhanced it, given my need to insulate myself from *people*. I learned to *not* hear offensive remarks, to put up a nearly impenetrable wall between me and other people, such that my room mate in college once said, "It's not much fun getting to know you, Maria, but once once I did, I felt like I'd really accomplished something!" :suspicious:

I don't know what I'd have been like without the ability to build those walls between me and other people. Probably friendlier, possibly more easily hurt.

My point is, it doesn't take home schooling to produce a grumpy recluse. Some of us are just naturally that way!

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elfshadow
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 7:15 pm
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Feredir wrote:
Well, except the home schooler would likely be smarter.
Now THAT is an example of a stereotypical response of parents who homeschool. I'm sorry but hearing things like that makes me incredibly angry. You would be just as angry if I claimed that a public school kid would "likely be smarter" than one who is homeschooled. I have no problem with parents who choose to homeschool their children because it is the right choice for that child. I DO have a problem with anyone thinking that homeschooling itself will somehow produce "smarter" children--or vice versa. :roll: Intelligent children can be failed by the public school system and they can be failed by being homeschooled. It all depends on whether or not the choice was right for them, and whether or not the schooling was done to best fit the child. A mediocre public school probably won't do a child good, but neither will parents who provide mediocre homeschooling. One choice is NOT better than the other. They are simply different. I attended an American public school for 12 years and I now attend one of the best universities in the country. Had my parents decided to homeschool me they would not have had enough time or resources to provide me with the best education, and I would probably be attending an in-state school. Good choice for some, not for me. No one should criticize a parent who makes the schooling choice that is best for their child. So no one should claim that one method is somehow inherently better in general than another method.

btw Freddy, that paragraph wasn't directed at you, it just happened to be that comment that got me posting. ;)


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Feredir
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 7:31 pm
 
 
Elfshadow,
That's exactly why I made the comment. You can't make categorical statements that a child will be less educated or less socialized than another child. You can find good and bad in BOTH methods of schooling. Each child is different and each parent should make a decision based on their abilities and the child's needs. Let's face it, if it weren't for Lali, my kids would likely be in private schools. I can't do what she does.

freddy


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LalaithUrwen
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 7:34 pm
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Elsha, in part, I agree with you. As a product of the public schools, my intelligence is the one thing I am not insecure about. I got lucky that my school district had a gifted program. I got lucky that I'm the kind of person who loves learning, so that I could make myself get through the crap classes. I got lucky that I had an inherent personality that wants to please, so that I didn't act out in class too often when I was bored (which was nearly constantly). I got lucky that I had some really terrific teachers, just enough to make me not absolutely hate school. I also got lucky that when I did get in trouble (more often than you'd think and mostly for reading in class) that I usually got a slap on the wrist because I was such a good student otherwise. :)

Here is food for thought, though:

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

Now, I would like to find out just exactly who conducted this research study; it says it's an independent source.

By way of summary:
Quote:
In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile.


This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades.

Lali

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Posted: Fri 22 Feb , 2008 8:49 pm
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When Freddy used the word "smarter", he used the wrong word. The correct words are "more educated." It's the difference between natural aptitude and training.

I sometimes analogize intelligence in a certain way - it is like a measuring cup. Some cups are naturally larger than others, but a small full cup contains more than a large empty one.

Home School Students have much more put into their measuring cup, that is all.

Plus public schools also put useless junk in the cup too often.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Lurker
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Posted: Sat 23 Feb , 2008 8:44 pm
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I think this is a good idea. I wish there was one when I was a kid. Never liked to go to classes that makes me :tired:.

I like the idea of attending school and homeschooling, speaking as a new parent. Since my wife is very good in math and sciences (chemistry, enviromental sciences, calculus are her forte, which I despised when I was in HS) while I could teach accounting, statistics (all those fun business math stuff) and art/art history very well. Our problem is, we are not very good in English lit, music, history, philosophy, humanities stuff, those were the subjects we :tired: off when we were kids we would love to have our kids to actually go to school for that. We want to get the best of both worlds.

I find that with math and science subjects the only way I will be able to learn how to do it is on a "one on one" basis. Having it taught to me in a classroom with say 15-20 kids (I went to private school) I would imagine in public school there are at least 40-50 in a class. (Princess told me they had 50 in an algebra class in her public school.) just doesn't register in my brain at all. I get more confused cause the teacher would try to do say one chapter in a day and the next day you can't ask questions anymore because he has moved on to a different topic. Plus the fact that, there are 14 other kids who want to ask questions. Some of them are good, some of them are stupid questions. In fact, one time I got so upset with people asking "stupid" questions with say "the tail test" for statistics that I just lost it and go "Can we move on to another question in the book?" The teacher telling me it is not a "stupid" question made me want to just ask him to just hand me the answers and I'll figure it out myself. I get more confused when we go into our little groups during math class doing problems and we end up with different answers. We get stuck for an hour doing one equation. :help:

With the other stuff like humanities, world history, english lit, music etc... I like my kids to learn other people's culture/ideas in a classroom setting. Like say, analyzing a poem, I'm not very good at this so I like listening to my classmates say what they think the poet/author/writer is trying to convey. If Princess and I just do it at home, we will have no idea what other people would thought about this particular book or poem or this piece of history. Yes, we could interact with other parents/students on the net but I don't want to rely heavily on the computer with this kind of stuff.

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laureanna
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Posted: Sat 23 Feb , 2008 10:09 pm
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I got my masters degree entirely via the Internet. I couldn't have gotten it otherwise, since it was from the University of Washington, and I was in Alaska, then partway through the degree program, moved to California.

We had more interaction that any of us particularly wanted (except for one verbose guy). We had a message board similar to this one, as well as email and conference calls. The message board worked the best, since students were in the US, Europe, Middle East, and Japan. We did many projects in small groups of 3 or 4 students each, which is not that much different from what I do at work - many of the people I work with are not in the same building, so we organize our efforts by email and phone, which is much more efficient than face to face meetings, in which one person at a time is talking and everyone else is bored.

A relative of mine works at the Internet Academy, http://www.iacademy.org , free in the State of Washington, and used by kids who are working, competing, traveling, ill, two classes shy of graduating, or just not interested in being tortured by the "working in groups is always good for you" ethic that some teachers espouse.

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