board77

Feredir wrote:

It is saddening to think that just because someone doesn't speak eloquently, he's thought to be stupid. Pretty shallow if you ask me, but no one asked.

I agree.

I've worked with people with disabilities, and the greatest peeve I have as a result is the assumption that disabilities make people unintelligent. It looks to me like Bush has a speech impediment.

I think Bush was a rather bad president, but to say he's stupid because he misspeaks is still very irritating.

Bush having a speech impediment? Maybe....but he seems to talk fine when he's talking plainly with no pressure and no complicated messages to get accross. I just always got the feeling when watching him speak that he didn't mentally have a good grasp of what info he was delivering to the public.

This all seems rather moot now but I don't think he "sounded stupid" because he wasn't eloquent or maybe had a speech impediment. He sounded stupid because he never seemed like someone who had a grasp on difficult, complex, or nuanced issues. He had a very simplistic view of the world which, to me, seemed to betray a simple mind. That he spoke with poor grammar only aggravated the impression.

I don't think he had a speech impediment, but I do think he was coached to sound simpler than he really is. If you search for Youtube videos of him speaking as Governor of Texas, you'll likely find that he had an entirely different speaking manner then than he did as President. I think that many of his advisers told him to dumb down his language and grammar in order to appeal to a certain segment of the voters. Although, as yov said, I don't think he necessarily understood all of the issues that he was discussing.

The videos of him speaking as Governor were recorded more than a decade ago. IMO, he is either in the beginning stages of some sort of dementia or it's just that the years of drug and alcohol abuse caught up with him.

Dave_LF wrote:

The videos of him speaking as Governor were recorded more than a decade ago. IMO, he is either in the beginning stages of some sort of dementia or it's just that the years of drug and alcohol abuse caught up with him.

Or he started drinking again. My brother had that theory a few years ago.

It would interesting to compare his speech patterns from 10-12 years ago and now.

Not that it would prove anything one way or another, it would just be interesting.

I agree with Elfy. I think he dumbed it down on purpose. I say this because I have worked for the government for several years and have had more than one person ask me if what they needed to say sounded 'common' enough. I think it is a common technique used by many to try to get their point across to as many people as possible. For some reason there is a notion (right or wrong) that the mass public only has a 5th grade comprehension of the English language and many public speakers (government or not) aim for that comprehension.

That said, I don't think its right for a President to do that. I have a feeling Bush was told to do that by his people. For example when he came here during his last campaign he said he was happy to be in a place where there was more boots than suits. He catered to the crowd and it did get a bunch of cheers.


Anyway it's all moot now, all that's left is the mess.

...and in the finest traditions of America, they've brought in the black guy to clear it up.

Lidless wrote:

...and in the finest traditions of America, they've brought in the black guy to clear it up.

Old joke, Liddy...old.

OLD.

Ara-anna wrote:

He catered to the crowd and it did get a bunch of cheers.

Of course that is exactly what Obama did when he went to San Francisco and called the people in PA "Bitter American's clinging to their guns and religion." This is far more offensive, and just plain wrong, than saying boots and suits.

Any person speaking to a crowd will cater to the crowd, it's how it is done.


freddy

Feredir wrote:

Of course that is exactly what Obama did when he went to San Francisco and called the people in PA "Bitter American's clinging to their guns and religion." This is far more offensive, and just plain wrong, than saying boots and suits.

You might be interested to know that Obama later cited that incident of one of his biggest mistakes and regrets in his campaign. I thought it was a fairly stupid thing to say...and apparently, so did he, upon reflection.

Quote:

Any person speaking to a crowd will cater to the crowd, it's how it is done.

I totally agree and I think too much is being made of comments like "boots and suits." It was obviously a clever phrase thought up by a speech writer and it was meant for a specific audience. There wasn't anything offensive about it and it certainly isn't in a category with Bush's other "mis-speaks."

I wasn't implying Bush had mis-spoken. I was saying he said it because of the audience. And I am sorry he did make him self more common with his speaking. Honestly even if dad did buy his way into Yale, he still had to be intelligent to make it as far as he did, which includes being able to communicate in a reasonable manner. He was quite a bit more eloquant in his speaking abilities at one time, so I must think that at some point someone told him speak more plainly as it were.

As for President Obama, he apologized for that comment. Has Bush ever apologized for anything he did yet?

What on earth does Bush have to apologize for?

It makes me sick, literally headachey sick, that so much of what was done in the last 8 years is being excused by this phrase: "They thought they were doing the right thing."

Don't bloody get me started on the number of times in the last 8,000 years people have suffered and died because some jackass with delusions of grandeur "thought he was doing the right thing."

Good intentions do not, in my mind, excuse a vile action.

jewelsong wrote:

Feredir wrote:

Of course that is exactly what Obama did when he went to San Francisco and called the people in PA "Bitter American's clinging to their guns and religion." This is far more offensive, and just plain wrong, than saying boots and suits.

You might be interested to know that Obama later cited that incident of one of his biggest mistakes and regrets in his campaign. I thought it was a fairly stupid thing to say...and apparently, so did he, upon reflection.

Quote:

I'm sorry, I think he was speaking honestly and meant exactly what he said. Did he apologize, sure he did because it was the politically correct thing to do. I dont think Pres. Obama understands why a large number of Americans believe so strongly in the 2nd Amendment and their "religion." Quite honestly it is very hard to explain other than saying it is my right as a US citizen who is not a convicted of certain crimes. I purchased these firearms and they are mine to possess and a given right of the US constitution.

Alas, this thread is about Former President Bush and I did not mean to hijack it. The man is out of office so all that can be done is for the new administration to take over and move on.

freddy

Quote:

Bitter American's clinging to their guns and religion

It just occurred to me, but are the people who are so bothered by this parsing it as "they're bitter and that's why they won't give up their guns and religion"? Because I always took it as "they're bitter and that's why they fixate on guns and religion to such an unhealthy extent".

It also just occurred to me that that's a pretty apt explanation for where groups like Al Qaeda come form.

Dave_LF wrote:

Quote:

Bitter American's clinging to their guns and religion

It just occurred to me, but are the people who are so bothered by this parsing it as "they're bitter and that's why they won't give up their guns and religion"? Because I always took it as "they're bitter and that's why they fixate on guns and religion to such an unhealthy extent".

It also just occurred to me that that's a pretty apt explanation for where groups like Al Qaeda come form.

*makes sure I don't go off the deep end*

Dave, did you just compare people, such as myself, to Al Qaeda?

freddy

Feredir wrote:

I'm sorry, I think he was speaking honestly and meant exactly what he said. Did he apologize, sure he did because it was the politically correct thing to do. I dont think Pres. Obama understands why a large number of Americans believe so strongly in the 2nd Amendment and their "religion."

Oh, I think he was speaking honestly. But I think the interpretation of his remarks was something he didn't correctly gauge...and was a bit taken aback by. It was early in his campaign and it was a pretty steep learning curve. I still think it was a stupid choice of words.

It is one thing to believe strongly in your right to bear arms and practice your religion. It is another to "cling" to it...and I don't mean that as any kind of insult to you, Freddy. (And I don't think Dave was comparing you to Al Queda, either.)

But I don't want to hijack the thread either...and I don't have the energy to start one about guns and religion.

back atcha

On the other hand, maybe what this board needs right now is a ROUSING discussion about guns and religion!