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Men should stay out of the birthing room

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Meril36
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Posted: Thu 17 Apr , 2008 5:08 pm
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My grandmother was delivered at home by my great-great-grandfather.

What I would like to see is more doctors who would be willing to come to your house when you're ready to deliver. I'm sure they still exist somewhere.

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Estel
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Posted: Thu 17 Apr , 2008 7:32 pm
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I've gotta agree with Yova.

Many of the births my mom has attended have been fine, but there have been not a small number of them that involved a normal healthy mother and what had been a normal healthy pregnancy, and ended up with an abnormal unhealthy labor.

It might not be common, but it happens enough that I would rather be safe than sorry. The difference between mortality rates in countries where hospitalization and high quality care is common compared to countries where it's not is pretty staggering.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Thu 17 Apr , 2008 7:43 pm
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Hmmm. I am speaking from experience here, having had three kids myself, all quite different labors and deliveries, nothing critical, thank goodness, but they could have easily been. Melanie, my eldest, was two weeks late, and, no, i had all of my dates right. I was nigh on in labor with her for over 48 hours with contractions, back labor, before they ruptured the waters to put me into full labor, and, she popped out like a cork on an over shaken bottle of champagne, I kid you not. So, I suppose I would have not needed any doctors there, but, to be honest, I was glad they sped things up a bit, I was exhausted!! No hubby was not in the delivery room with me, but, who cared at that point? I just wanted to have that baby!!

Andrew was forceps delivered, he got stuck in the birth canal, and I could have easily put both his life and my own in jeopardy if not for having a doc there, all I remember about his birth is that he started going into distress and I thought I had been split open when they finally got him out. I bled like a stuck pig for days afterwards, and I screamed so loud during his delivery that hubby said the whole floor heard me. :oops: Andrew was also overdue, and they KNEW he was going to be a big baby. So, I was scheduled for a full induction, and it still would have gone badly if not for being in the hospital, at least in my opinion. Again, hubby at the time was not in delivery with me, and I thank goodness he was not, I nearly passed out from the pain.

TJ, however, was born three weeks early, and second hubby was there the whole time, and he was nothing but comfort and support for me. TJ thankfully was okay, but a wee little mite, only weighing 5 lbs 13 oz, although healthy, such a different experience from the first two!!

So, I am of the opinion that it should be up to the mother and father first off, and then, based on their choices, they should seek what will address them and their outlook. I have nothing against hospitals, nor the wonderful staffs that I experienced all three times, the nurses and aides and interns were all wonderful in my recollection. Two of my three kids were NOT delivered by my own ob/gyn but by the doc on call. I have to say that is a field that is NOT one that can be planned about too easily. :D


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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Thu 17 Apr , 2008 8:13 pm
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I had my first two in military hospitals, and met the baby catcher doctor about 5 minutes before giving birth. The third was an intern or something and had me pushing too soon. Talk about infuriating.

Watcher, do you think the different father played a role in the different birthweight? No offense meant, but it's a big deal in raising cattle. You often see sires touted for their small calves that are easy on heifers. I couldn't help but think of that when reading your post!

I thought 8+ lbs was the norm since all mine were, until several years after I was done having kids. :oops:

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The Watcher
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Posted: Thu 17 Apr , 2008 9:09 pm
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MH -

No offense taken. Mel was just about 8 lbs, but she was 23 inches long, so not chubby at all, very slender. The pediatricians always thought she would be tall, like I am, but, for whatever reason, she never got past 5'5", maybe as part of her eating disorder, up until that time, she was always a tall kid for her age.

Andrew was a whopping 9 lbs 10 oz, which does not sound so bad, but he was only 21 inches long, and his shoulders are what got him stuck, he looked like a little bowling ball!! He had the body of a little sumo wrestler, I remember that none of my newborn clothes would even fit his frame!! He now stands at six foot two inches, and probably weighs around 200 lbs, but he is not at all fat.

TJ -well, I do not know about that. I was older when TJ was born, I was 35. He also was born early, my waters broke, and I did not go into labor. So, they had to induce his birth. TJ DOES take after his own father, a very full frame on the stocky side, and also rather tall, but, he is only 11, but I bet he at least gets up to Andrew's height. I have NO idea why TJ was so little at birth, maybe due to his mild prematurity, I did not have complications, except for constant nausea and severe sciatica, so maybe I did not gain enough weight? I was already a bit overweight to start with, but, it was not as if I ballooned up or anything.

J, TJ's father, had a mother who was prone to miscarriage, at least three pregnancies besides J. He ended up being an only child, but, do such things carry through the son from a mother? And, I fail to see how that would impact me? But, then again, I do know that some things tend to influence all of this. :scratch:


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Berhael
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 8:44 am
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Argh, I just lost a humunguous post due to connection problems. :rage: I'll be back later when I have some free time to retype it!

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Lidless
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 7:36 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Oh hell I'll be there - particularly at the exit. I had twins before by Caesarian and missed out on everything (thank goodness). No way I'm missing out on a proper exit this time - no matter what anyone has about self-image-you-shouldn't-see-my vagina-like-that issues.

Personally, I don't think any woman should be present in the birthing room. They just get way - too emotional.

Last edited by Lidless on Fri 18 Apr , 2008 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 7:51 pm
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Lidless wrote:
Oh hell I'll be there - particularly at the exit. I had twins before by Caesarian and missed out on everything (thank goodness). No way I'm missing out on a proper exit this time - no matter what anyone has about self-image-you-shouldn't-see-my vagina-like-that issues.
Am I reading those tenses currently? :scratch:
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Personally, I don't think any woman should be present in the birthing room. They just get way too emotional.
Totally agree, which is why I support an alternate reality in which only men can do the important, sacred work of giving birth. Give me that world, and my interest in procreating will marginally increase.


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Estel
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 7:53 pm
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No, I'm not pregnant - there's this whole thing with sperm with no tails that keeps that from happening quite well. :D


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tolkienpurist
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 7:56 pm
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Yeah, just checking - which is why I was seriously confused for a sec. :scratch: (and yes, you're a lucky gal - best BC ever :P)


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Lidless
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 8:22 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Me been snipped. Ma seamen have no swimming proficiency certificates.

But who's to say in the next few years that won't be the case?

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Rodia
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 8:28 pm
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I just saw a talk show on the subject this morning, and the female host seemed sure that it was better for the husband to be there. The psychologist they had in as a guest said "Among all of life's difficult moments, those 'exams' we all must pass, a child's birth is like a little cosmic smile. You want to be there.'

Well, it sounds nice.

That said, when I consider the possibility that I could some day be pregnant, the ideal conditions for birth I can imagine is to be left the hell alone- that private bubble of not thinking the dude in the article talks about sounds PERFECT! It's how I deal with any illness or pain, and friendly people patting me on the hand saying it'll be okay only make it worse. Naturally I realise that would be difficult but considering I've never even had sex, you can expect me to be unrealistic. When and if it happens, who knows what I'll want.

But one thing I'm glad about is that the option to choose exists, nowadays. My mother often tells me about how horrible the hospital was to her when she had me. She says that the nurses were very cold and indifferent (I don't know if she would have wanted Dad there but it was out of the question anyway) and that as soon as I was born they took me away and would not let her hold me until we were discharged a few days later. She couldn't breastfeed, so they didn't see a reason to bring me to the ward at all.

The decision should be up to the parents- both of them. Two of my friends from work had kids recently and I didn't think either of them would want to be present at the delivery. One I know was scared shitless by the very idea of being a father. But when I asked him if he'd be there or outside, he said "I should be there. Well, but my wife will decide." I don't think he would have been too bothered if she had said no. The other one was ready with a video camera from day one. :P


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vison
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 9:25 pm
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A video camera? All I can say is, I'm glad no such thing was around when I had my babies.

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Rodia
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 10:02 pm
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Considering his wife's the daughter of a film producer, and he's up next to take over the studio, I'd bet the only reason he didn't get the gaffer on the set was that the gaffer's wife was the other one giving birth. :P


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Berhael
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 10:20 pm
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I believe that fathers should be present in the birth of their child if they're interested in their children at all. It's a huge emotional thing and I can't imagine how any father could have a complete relationship with their child without having witnessed their birth. :scratch:

Being put off sex?? FFS. I bet those are the same men who are put off practicing oral sex because they think women's bits are "a bit icky". :roll:

As for them being useless, that sounds to me like the classic excuse "oh I can't vacuum/cook/put the dishwasher on... I'm useless, me. You better do it, darling". :roll: Men can be very useful during labour; if nothing else, they can act as an interpreter for the woman if she's too whacked out to have a coherent conversation with the doctor or midwife. Of course that implies that he'd need to be aware of the woman's choices (what kind of pain relief, etc.) beforehand, but any man who's involved in the whole pregnancy/birth process would do that.

I was adamant from the start that Dan would be involved in as many aspects as possible. He couldn't experience the physical sensations of pregnancy (apart from kicks and movements) but I made sure I told him how I felt, with the proviso that I didn't really need him to do anything about it (men like to solve problems, whereas women often only want to share them, not necessarily a solution). He was the one who had wanted children, so I guessed he would be more interested in it all than me, who was quite reluctant.

During labour he was a lifeline. My mother couldn't be with me, and I don't have any female relatives or anyone I trusted enough to be with me, and anyway Dan is not only my husband, he's my best friend, and the father of my child, so he was the ideal person to be there. I needed him for support and to make sure I got all the help I needed; but he also wanted to be there for himself. He made sure the midwife knew what I needed when I couldn't articulate it myself; told me jokes when I was in good spirits; held my hand, stroked my cheek and told me how well I was doing when I was in pain. He also helped me prepare for contractions by keeping an eye on the monitor, and kept me informed of how the baby was doing. He fetched me fruit juice, water, the TENS machine, helepd me to my feet when I wanted to change position or go to the bathroom, and held on to me when they gave me the epidural. When they wheeled me into theatre for an emergency Caesarean, he was there holding my hand and telling me to hold on just a bit more, even if he was as scared as me. I couldn't have done it without him.

As for the issue of hospitals... I was from the beginning certain that I wanted a hospital birth. I think this is a cultural thing; home births are almost unheard of in Spain, everybody goes to hospital and has an epidural. The UK has many more choices (home birth, water birth, different pain relief options, etc.) and I think it's a good thing that they try to accommodate all different philosophies of childbirth, from the hippy "labour is not an illness, so I don't need drugs or a doctor" to "too posh to push" elective Caesarians. I myself was in the "give me all the drugs you have" camp. ;) I couldn't (and still can't) understand home births without pain relief, they're definitely not for me. But maybe I have a low pain threshold. I was also shocked that I wouldn't be seen by a gynaecologist or tocologist throughout pregnancy and labour, unless anything went very wrong; in this country, midwives take care of everything that falls within the "normal" spectrum. I can understand the reason for it (after all, pregnancy and labour are not illnesses)... but I'd still have felt more reassured seeing a doctor at some point. ;) In any case, I had an uneventful pregnancy and didnt' need one, but boy was I glad of all the modern medical technology at the hospital when it was clear that I couldn't have Alex naturally. And it was VERY clear - it wasn't a case of doctors prescribing a c-section for me to fit in with their schedules. They really tried to have me deliver Alex with as little intervention as possible, but my body just didn't play ball, which is when they intervened. I'm happy with that; perhaps they could have induced me a bit earlier (they let me wait for over 24h since my waters broke), but it wouldn't have made any difference in the end.

My hospital experience was brilliant, the midwives were fantastic (I had one with me throughout the night when I was in labour... and it was a very busy time) and I got all the pain relief, attention and help I needed. I know that hospitals in the UK vary a lot, but at least I can say that the one I went to (NHS, by the way) was top notch. :)

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Rodia
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 10:53 pm
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I feel the need to mention that while I have no real idea what I will or won't want if I end up having a baby some day, I know this: I don't want my mother anywhere near. Just, no. Seems like everyone wants their mum there, and it's not like we're estranged or something but really, out of all the typical choices she's the last person I would want there.

Problem is she'll probably not get it. I still can't get her to understand that although she has given birth to me and brought me up, it is NOT ok to walk into the bathroom while I'm in there.


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Holbytla
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 10:57 pm
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Well I pretty much agree with Ber.

And women do have icky bits.

Not that that ever stopped me.


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Berhael
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Posted: Fri 18 Apr , 2008 11:08 pm
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Hi Holby. :D

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vison
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Posted: Sat 19 Apr , 2008 12:12 am
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When my Mum was 6 months pregnant with me, her first child, she was visiting her Mum (my granny, obviously) one afternoon. My grandmother went into labour with her 14th child, and she asked my Mum to stay a little longer and help. My Mum balked. "Why can't Dorothy do it?" she asked. Dorothy was her oldest sister, and she lived about a mile up the road. "Because Dorothy's an idiot," my granny said.

So Mum did it. Granny had everything ready, of course. Linens and sharp scissors and pads and all. The baby, who was my Mum's brother Donald, came easily, but was born with the cord around his neck. My granny calmly told Mum what to do and everything turned out fine.

My Mum doesn't regard this as a happy memory. She didn't like doing it then and now, 64 years later, she still doesn't like it. So there you are. I don't know if it means anything.

My granny went on to have a 15th child 2 years later, all her children were born at home. She never had a doctor either during the pregnancies or at the births, and not always a midwife/neighbour/friend, either. My grandpa never had anything to do with the birthing part. Actually, they had separate bedrooms.

My granny was about 4 foot 10 or so, and at her heaviest she might have weighed 95 pounds. All her babies were 7 or 8 pounds and very healthy and strong. She was pretty remarkable, really. She died just shy of her 90th birthday and was literally never sick a day in her life - according to her, anyway. She never had a headache. At the end she had a stroke, spent one night in the hospital - the only night she ever spent in a hospital in all her long life - and died in her sleep the next day.

13 of her 15 children are still alive. The oldest is my Aunt Dorothy who is 85 and the youngest is my Uncle Doug who is 62.

I think it's great if the father wants to be part of the birth process. I think the more a man bonds with his child, the better. I don't think that a man who isn't there is any less of a father, though. My own dad never saw any of us 6 born and a more loving and tender father never lived.

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Meril36
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Posted: Sat 19 Apr , 2008 12:55 am
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Separate bedrooms and fifteen kids? Wow.

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