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Ethnicity and Citizenship

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Lurker
Post subject: Ethnicity and Citizenship
Posted: Fri 13 Jun , 2008 5:08 am
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Here in Canada, during this time of year esp. in Toronto people place their ethnicity on their sleeve or should I say on the windows of their cars. Yes, it's the Euro Cup again, you know, futball, soccer, football whatever you call it. I'm not an avid follower but I love looking at the United Colours of Benetton flags flapping on every car on the streets of Toronto. Unfortunately, I live in Calgary now, so I miss much of the action.

Anyways, one of my good friends is a Canadian born Greek. He would often get upset with me when I tell another person he is Greek, yet during Euro Cup or the World Cup, he would proudly show his colours by hanging his Greek flag on his car. I often tease him that he is the guy who has often corrected me that he is Canadian not Greek yet he will be the first one to put a flag on his car. :scratch: Sounds schizophrenic eh? ;)

What is it about ethnicity and sports that make people come out of their "closets" and proudly say they are Greek, German, Portuguese, Italian etc...

Another thing that I noticed is that a lot of people get annoyed sometimes even upset when they see these flags filtering the streets of Toronto. Or the same people will cause traffic by having a "national party" in the streets or driving around with big flags and honking "Go "insert your country of ethnicity here". I would often hear people say "Fly the Canadian flag!" or "Go Home!" and other racial slur. I don't see anything wrong with it. My dad once said I admire the Americans they are very patriotic you wouldn't see them carrying a UK flag with the American flag together. Yet here in Canada, we fly the Canadian flag on one hand yet we carry the Italian or German or Greek etc... flag on the other hand. My dad like other older folks seem to find this unpatriotic. I keep telling him "Dad, maybe it's because we don't have a Canadian soccer team to be proud of (oops, I apologize to Toronto FC fans reading this, but in the international scene we really don't.), that's why this is the only chance they got to be a part of the football inner cirle."

Just some random thoughts that goes through my mind when the Euro/World Cup comes around. No, this doesn't happen when the World Hockey tournaments comes around, everybody is rooting for Team Canada here. I guess it's a sacrilage if you root for say Team Sweden. Care to comment?

BTW, Go France!!! :P Sorry, I can't resist. :D

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Ethnicity and Citizenship
Posted: Fri 13 Jun , 2008 12:56 pm
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Lurker wrote:
What is it about ethnicity and sports that make people come out of their "closets" and proudly say they are Greek, German, Portuguese, Italian etc...
Because it's all the same thing--nationalism, religionism, tribalism, etc. Sports are basically a way of playing at tribal warfare. Which is why they turn into riots when people forget they're only playing.


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aulini
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Posted: Fri 13 Jun , 2008 2:11 pm
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And so, maybe, sports is to nationalism as computer games or paintball is to actual violence and war?

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Dave_LF
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Posted: Fri 13 Jun , 2008 4:11 pm
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aulini wrote:
And so, maybe, sports is to nationalism as computer games or paintball is to actual violence and war?
I would put all those things in the same category as ways to play at war. And competitive team sports or video games as ways of playing at tribal or nationalistic warfare in particular.


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aulini
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Posted: Fri 13 Jun , 2008 8:32 pm
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Yeah, I think what I meant to say was, nationalism in sports is to actual nationalism as paintball is to actual war. It's a way to play tribalism/nationalism without the pitfalls and horrors of the real thing. Just like paintball is a way to play war without actually having to shoot someone. It's all part of the same package of course.

I just played paintball for the first time the other week, by the way. It was much, much more fun than I would have thought! I felt like Rambo.

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eärendil
Post subject: Re: Ethnicity and Citizenship
Posted: Mon 01 Dec , 2008 5:10 pm
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I guess this goes beyond sport too. Although the OG seem to show that also. The number of Chinese people bearing the flag on their cars during the closing ceremony in Toronto was crazy lol...

I was not born in Canada and migrated a little bit more than 4 years ago now. I am also divided, actually in 3. But that is not the point.
I am French and although I moved to Canada, there's nothing about it; I can't pretend to believe that Canada's history's mine even if I know it. I don't relate to the country's past as I relate to that of France. Some day-to-day things I do the French way and some concepts I will not be able to think of in a Canadian (or North American) way... Don't ask me for examples, I can't think of any right now, although I do know that some things I don't see the same way as my bf and I know that it is due to the fact he was born and raised here where I was born and raised in France ;). I am proud I guess you could say of being French; there are so many beautiful things of the past, of the present to be seen and enjoyed in France. Everything's not perfect, obviously but then where is everything perfect? Although I am pro-European I guess you could say I define myself first as French.

Yet, after living 4 years in Canada and being now a permanent resident (for 2 years) I am supposedly allowed to apply for citizenship, and I have been thinking of it. I do feel I belong to Canadian society; I mean I work here (not right now but that's beside the point again :P), I've been paying my taxes to the Canadian government for the past 2 years, have finished my studies here and have created a social network here that I don't have anymore in France. So my life is in Canada and I feel concerned by everything that happens here. I followed the election and actually took part in a couple of meetings. Not that I can vote there but I do believe that I have a say in the elections being also at the receiving end of the federal and provincial policies.

Now, it is not the same as those born in Canada from immigrant parents I guess where the divide might be even more bizarre. I have had 23 years to know my French identity and over the 4 past years it has been enriched by a Canadian culture that has modified, developed my identity and the way I see myself as a "cultural entity". I am not divided in the sense that I don't know where I belong, not at all, but in the sense that I see myself as being a mix of different cultures, ways of life. I guess that is why my title is "citizen of the world" because I do believe that wherever you decide to live you must be flexible. And truth is I have been enjoying being flexible and open to changing my opinion, my perception of things :D.
Your culture and where you come from may be your own and define you but as a citizen of a country you have to abide the laws and you must be open-minded to being changed by the new culture you are exposed to. I guess that is what makes me such a globe-trotter. I am always amazed at the many things we can learn from others and how we can be enriched by being shown different ways of thinking/seeing life.

Now, I guess that for those who were born Canadian but with roots in other cultures it might be different; they haven't had these 20 odd years to know their Greek/Indian/Haitian/... identities and in a way I guess they see this identity as antagonistic to their Canadian identity, or two identities that cannot really be expressed at the same time. It seems to me that is what your friend is experiencing Lurker. I find myself blessed to find that I don't live it that way (I know that my feelings of belonging everywhere is an oddity to my brother and sister who consider themselves French only, not even Europeans ;)). I consider myself French, Canadian and Irish, and German too for that matter and all these countries where I lived for a while (long or shorter) have left an hand print on my heart I guess. They are all parts of who I am, who I have become as a person, as a citizen and as a cultural being.

Not sure that is what you meant, but these are the thoughts that I had reading your post ;)

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Heliona
Post subject: Re: Ethnicity and Citizenship
Posted: Tue 09 Dec , 2008 2:40 am
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When, as a British person, travelling in the US and Canada (in particular, however this phenomenon is not confined to just those countries by any means!), I do find it quite amusing when, upon introductions, and finding out that I'm from Scotland, so many people, in broad American and Canadian accents say, "Oh, I'm Scottish too!" (For some reason, this reaction doesn't happen if you say you're from England! :D)

Of course, what they mean is that their grandparents, or perhaps great-grandparents, were from Scotland. As far as I'm concerned, they're American/Canadian. I'm not saying that they should deny their ancestry; far from it. The fact that they know about it is a great thing. However, their ancestors left Scotland/Ireland/wherever in search for a better life because they were mis-treated back home (I'm thinking in particular of the Highland Clearances, for example) and probably wanted to put their past behind them.

The mentality that North Americans in particular (apart from Mexicans, I would imagine) have with regard their past is, I think, unique, and stems from the fact that most people are descendents of Europeans who emigrated. Whereas, of course, those of us still over on the East side of the Atlantic never left, so we are where our roots are.

I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment on the nationalism to different countries that emerges in the US and Canada at major sporting events where their home countries aren't involved (like Euro 2008), since most of the time, we over here can support our home country (apart from those of us in Scotland, as we rarely get through! :D). (I was supporting Spain, so I was happy when they won! :D)

But it is an interesting debate that you raise, Lurker, and perhaps points to how much people feel divided in their nationality.

(If I'm rambling, I'm sorry! It's late here!)


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Wilma
Post subject: Re: Ethnicity and Citizenship
Posted: Mon 15 Dec , 2008 2:19 pm
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Interesting we actually covered some of this in my anthropology class.I know in Canada that sort of thing is important as 50% of Canadians are foreign born. It's a common background thing. Also many ethnic groups go back "home" to visit. Also when people leave a lot of times they are looking for economic improvements but they still miss the culture and don't want to forget that stuff. Also cultural thinking persists evnthough people don't live in athat are anymore. Like with people of a West Indian background here I can totally talk about the comfort of rice and peas, and they know what plantains are. ;) Although in St.Kitts I am considered a foreigner (more then 50% of the time). ;)

In a lot of cases people are sort of in the middle or on the fence so to speak. I personally value West Indian heritage and a lot of people here in Canada really do value their past origins.

I learned from Anthropology class, people are very resistant to "give" up their ethnic origins and practices.

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