board77

Apologies for just jumping in here: I haven't actually the whole thread, which is quite unusual for me - normally I read the entire thing before I post.

However, I've just posted in the Wal-Mart thread, and got side-tracked a bit by unions. So I thought I would post the union stuff here, and link to it in the Wal-Mart thread, so it wasn't filled with off-topic ramblings!

If I've messed up, just let me know! (And I promise to come back and read the whole thread here, but it's gone 2 in the morning here, and my eyes feel like they're about to bleed!)

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As for unions: they are responsible over here for the National Minimum Wage, which is, I believe, approximately one and a half times the Federal Minimum Wage in the US, so I say: yay for the unions! (And I am aware that each state has their own minimum wage, quite often significantly higher than that of the Federal Minimum Wage; however, I don't want to go hunting for the minimum wage for each state!)

Federal Minimum Wage as of July 24th, 2008: $6.55 [US Department of Labor Website]
British National Minimum Wage as of October 1st, 2008: £5.73 (This is for workers over the age of 22, there are lower ones for younger workers, which I believe is being disputed by unions right now.) [HM Customs and Revenue Website]

Taking into account the current exchange rate, which is £1 = $1.48406, according to Currency Converter Website, that makes the British National Minimum Wage equivalent to approximately $8.51. (That's roughly 1.3 times the US Federal Minimum Wage, so I was a little off - I think I was working on the older exchange rate!)

[As an aside: This is an interesting website about the National Union of Miners, who were responsible for establishing the National Minimum Wage in the UK.]

Heliona wrote:

The National Minimum Wage, which is, I believe, approximately one and a half times the Federal Minimum Wage in the US, so I say: yay for the unions! (And I am aware that each state has their own minimum wage, quite often significantly higher than that of the Federal Minimum Wage; however, I don't want to go hunting for the minimum wage for each state!)

Federal Minimum Wage as of July 24th, 2008: $6.55 [US Department of Labor Website]
British National Minimum Wage as of October 1st, 2008: £5.73 (This is for workers over the age of 22, there are lower ones for younger workers, which I believe is being disputed by unions right now.) [HM Customs and Revenue Website]

Taking into account the current exchange rate, which is £1 = $1.48406, according to Currency Converter Website, that makes the British National Minimum Wage equivalent to approximately $8.51. (That's roughly 1.3 times the US Federal Minimum Wage, so I was a little off - I think I was working on the older exchange rate!)

Unfortunately, you can't really compare currencies by just using a simple exchange rate...it's just not that simple. Yes the pound is worth more than a dollar so if you're coming from the UK to buy stuff in America, your money will buy more than what you could get at home and the opposite is true for Americans going to the UK. But when you look at what people can buy where they live, to me, people in the UK do not make as much money as those in the US. Many items cost the same numerical amount in the UK and the US. So if I'm on minimum wage in the US, I can buy a bit more with that wage than someone in the UK on miniumum wage. It seems a good salary in the UK is between £25-35K/year. Not so in the US.

You just can't compare by using the exchange rate. I've heard of it giving expats big problems when it came to setting the amount they were expected to pay monthly for any loans, especially when the exchange rate was really favouring the pound. Someone was making say £15K a year and the loan people would think "Hey, that's $30K/year so they have no problem paying a fair bit!". What they failed to comprehend is that the person was still having to pay at least £500/month for rent, still had the same numerical cost for food and utilities, had more taxes taken out (which of course goes towards healthcare) and was paying significantly more for things like petrol. They couldn't or wouldn't consider this and only went on the simple exchange rate and therefore left the person in a very difficult financial spot.

So from what I see, a person making minimum wage in the UK is not making more or in a better position than someone in the US on minimum wage, except in regards to healthcare.

I second Eru. WAges in Switzerland are among the highest in the world, but so is living-cost and thus the vital minimum has been fixed at 3000 Swiss Francs (the dollar is more or less the same, so it would be around 3000 $) per month. Minimum wage is around 15 farncs per hour brutto and if you get that, you starve at the end of the month.

Of course, I forgot about the cost of living (it was late at night!). I have had this conversation with some friends in "R/L". The problem with the issue of cost of living is that it differs immensely depending on where you live (and I'm referring to the area of the country you live in, as opposed to what country you live in).

There are parts of the US which are much more expensive to live in that others, and the minimum wage is the same (I realise that the state may have their own minimum wage which is higher, but for sake of ease, we'll go with the federal minimum wage).

There are naturally parts of the UK that are much more expensive to live in than others, and yet the minimum wage is the same for the whole of the UK. Taking into account cost of living really throws a spanner in the works, because as I said, the cost of living varies so dramatically within a country. Certainly, someone on the minimum wage in London would be struggling to live, however, someone on the minimum wage further north would find it much easier. (And healthcare is a huge difference, I'd like to point out. My family were in Canada when my mother became very ill - so ill that she couldn't fly back to the UK to get healthcare. Luckily, where we were in Canada, the clinic where she was treated actually waived all the fees, but they told us that if it had happened in the US, that wouldn't have happened. My mother probably would have died. So frankly, I'm extremely happy to pay some of my money into the health service so that we can get free healthcare. I'd hate to have to worry about how much healthcare was going to cost whilst either myself or a family member was ill.)

Yes, from my experience, overall, the cost of food (and definitely fuel!) is cheaper in the US than in the UK, but certainly the cost of housing (with regards buying a house, I don't know about rent) seems to be more expensive than here (although the housing market is falling here at the moment.). Of course, the crisis of the US economy is thanks to a huge amount of borrowing by people that didn't have any chance of paying anything back, and that does make one question whether the minimum wage is high enough - unless people are overspending because they were given the option of these loans in the first place.

(And the economic crisis in the UK is due to the government paying people in credit instead of actual money.)

I have a question: how often does the federal minimum wage in the US go up? Our minimum wage goes up every year here in the UK (at least it has for the past few years - I should know, I work at the minimum wage and get an annual wage increase because of it.).

Heliona
to answer your question: in the USA the minimum wage was $5.15 per hour for ten years without change. This was from 1997 through mid 2007. In late May of 2007 it was raised to $6.55 per hour. In July of 2009 it will go to $7.25 per hour.

Historically, the Democratic Party supports minimum wage increases and the Republican Party usually opposes them. So we may get some action on this in the next two years.

Heliona wrote:

but certainly the cost of housing (with regards buying a house, I don't know about rent) seems to be more expensive than here

Oh gosh! Definitely not! The one major thing you'll hear American Expats moan about is how expensive TINY houses are here. It's ridiculous. You get MUCH more house for your money in the US.

Quote:

I have a question: how often does the federal minimum wage in the US go up? Our minimum wage goes up every year here in the UK (at least it has for the past few years - I should know, I work at the minimum wage and get an annual wage increase because of it.).

I would say, not that often. I think it was around $5.15/hr when I started working around 12 years ago.

I was pretty appalled to find out that younger people don't get the full minimum wage in the UK. What a load of crap!

Erunáme wrote:

Heliona wrote:

but certainly the cost of housing (with regards buying a house, I don't know about rent) seems to be more expensive than here

Oh gosh! Definitely not! The one major thing you'll hear American Expats moan about is how expensive TINY houses are here. It's ridiculous. You get MUCH more house for your money in the US.

It's interesting how much it can vary just within the US, too (rent, that is, no idea about buying). In small town PA I paid $300/month for my apartment. In the DC suburbs of MD, I pay $850/month ($1700 split between my roommate and I). But I do get paid much more here at this job than I did in PA.

That's interesting regarding the non-rise of the US minimum wage for ten years. I don't actually know how often it's gone up here in the UK, just that in recent years it's been annually. I also disagree with the differing minimum wages for different ages, although I suppose for the youngest it can supported by saying that they probably aren't supporting themselves as adults generally are. (Also, when I was in the US and looking at the minimum wage, because I was hoping to get work over there, it was before May 2007, so when I wrote my first post, my mindset was obviously on the $5.15 minimum wage, which I found appalling - but I was in Martha's Vineyard at the time, where everything is expensive.)

A friend of mine lives in London and spends approximately £400 a week in rent! Anywhere outside London is much cheaper, to degrees, depending on how far north you get!

With the regards the smaller houses over here, a lot of that is because there just isn't the space. I have however, noticed a propensity for newly built houses being much larger than they really need to be (which is rather odd considering that heating prices are going through the roof! The smaller the house the easier it is to heat!). The housing market here in the UK has gone bananas in the last few years and the prices have frankly been ludicrous - fortunately, they seem to be slowly returning to something more reasonable.

However, the number of huge second homes that cost millions of dollars that are built (and sold) in the US is mind-boggling as far as I'm concerned. That was largely what I was thinking of. (Although there also seem to be more second homes being bought in the UK, but the number of large homes selling for millions of dollars (or pounds) here doesn't seem to be as large as those in the US.) It is really hard to compare like for like when the populations are different, houses are built of different materials, thus costing different amounts, and then there is the number of different factors regarding money. It's probably a debate that can never been finished successfully as there are so many factors involved.

(I personally maintain that the minimum wage in both countries is too low. But I do thank the unions in the UK that are responsible for getting a minimum wage in the first place. (I don't know who was responsible for the minimum wage in the US.))