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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Congress
Posted: Mon 17 Nov , 2008 9:03 pm
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The EC could be a lot more reflective of the general population with one change.

Since 1920, the size of the House of Representatives has not changed. The population has. Apportionments have as well. What we really need is one representative for approximately every 30,000 people, wich would be over a tenfold increase in the number of representatives.

It would make the representatives into people who actually represent their constituency, and the EC would give each state their number of representatives plus two for their electoral votes.

It wouldn't even take an amendment to the constitution. All it would take is a simple vote in the House.

Then on the state level the states could adopt the Maine system of dividing up the EVs.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Mon 17 Nov , 2008 10:24 pm
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Great idea :toast:

4,350 people in the House of Representatives. I love it.

Maybe some of here could be some of them there.

Call it a federal jobs program. :cool:

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Meril36
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Mon 17 Nov , 2008 11:00 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
The EC could be a lot more reflective of the general population with one change.

Since 1920, the size of the House of Representatives has not changed. The population has. Apportionments have as well. What we really need is one representative for approximately every 30,000 people, wich would be over a tenfold increase in the number of representatives.

It would make the representatives into people who actually represent their constituency, and the EC would give each state their number of representatives plus two for their electoral votes.

It wouldn't even take an amendment to the constitution. All it would take is a simple vote in the House.

Then on the state level the states could adopt the Maine system of dividing up the EVs.
I take it you listened to the Mark Thornton podcast this morning. :)

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 12:33 am
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When do we break ground on that new capital building to house 4,350 members of the House of Representatives?

Did Mark Thornton mention that date? And what is it going to cost? And in an average day of 8 hours, how many nano-seconds does that give each of those 4,350 representatives?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 2:39 am
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Making an argument in favor of expanding the number of representatives means that the plan is already in place and that there will be a groundbreaking soon?

:scratch:

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 11:42 am
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frome Meril36
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Since 1920, the size of the House of Representatives has not changed. The population has. Apportionments have as well. What we really need is one representative for approximately every 30,000 people, wich would be over a tenfold increase in the number of representatives.
If indeed this so called formula comes from Mark Thornton on some internet broadcast, he badly needs to refresh his math skills.

One HR member for every 30,000 people would give us a House of Representatives of just over 10,000 members.

from the Wikipedia on House of Representatives apportionment
Quote:
At the other extreme, because the number of Representatives cannot exceed one for every thirty thousand, the maximum number of Representatives at this time would be approximately 10,100.
Should we hold that in Madison Square Garden???? And each representative would get less than three seconds during an eight hour session to speak if time were equally divided among the members.

This idea boggles the mind. Just the idea that there is a Mark Thornton out there pushing these half-baked ideas on his flock - and then they repeat it to others - boggles the mind even more. I am probably giving Thornton too much credit for calling his idea "half baked".

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Onizuka Eikichi
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:16 pm
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LoL @ finger. In this modern world of computers and wireless communication, some monolithic building to hold meetings is not needed. People invent these things for a reason: to make life easier and less costly. Duh.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:20 pm
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Yes, and I can then hack into the computer system and complete my evil plot. I is a fone phreak from long back. :devil: bwhahahahahaha. :P :blackeye:

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:24 pm
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Now I guess I can laugh at you Onizuka. With one post you attempt to change over 200 years of Congressional history, the way it operates and functions, and the role each Congresperson plays in that body.

People did not invent phones or even computers to replace our system of government. Here is some information for you:

Phones have been around for over 100 years and have not changed the way Congress meets or deliberates. If your premise were correct, they have had over 100 years to do that and they have ignored such fanciful ideas. I guess the phrase "phoning it in" would take on a whole new meaning for our government with ideas such as yours out there.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:28 pm
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The House has already been wired for push button voting on bills, and that changed the way congress operated during the last 200 years. There's no reason other technological advances can't be used to restore balance to congress.

I wonder why anyone would oppose making congress more representative of the population.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:42 pm
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10,000 people is a good crowd at a basketball game.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:44 pm
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That's not relevant.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:48 pm
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Well its a fact. And its relevant to me.

this from Meril36
Quote:
Since 1920, the size of the House of Representatives has not changed. The population has. Apportionments have as well. What we really need is one representative for approximately every 30,000 people, wich would be over a tenfold increase in the number of representatives.
Which would equal over 10,000 people.
Figure it out doing the math. That gives each representative a little less than three seconds of speaking time in an eight hour session.

You sure can't do much representing of the population in three seconds no matter how the place is wired for votes.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:49 pm
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It may be relevant to you, but it's not relevant to the discussion.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:51 pm
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10,000 people trying to represent the American people is the discussion.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:57 pm
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That you think it is the size of a large basketball crowd isn't.

That you think that many people can't do the job could be the discussion, but that you think so without any substantiation besides "it's the size of a large baskeball crowd" makes your point irrelevant. Facts are needed, and not just the fact that ten thousand is the size of a large basketball crowd. Relevant facts are needed.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Onizuka Eikichi
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 4:58 pm
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It's called moving forward, SF. Corporate executives hold meetings wherever, whenever. It's called video conferencing, VoIP, and any number of other amazing technologies. And I am fairly certain many congresspeople and other government figures do this already - just not in any seriously official capacity. I see no reason why 10,000+ representatives could couldn't efficiently hold a meaningful meeting, conference, etcetera, in this fashion.

Get out of the stone age. Your archaic methods of information exchange are irrelevant.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: The Electoral College
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 5:16 pm
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Its a wonderful thing when all the pieces of the puzzle come together so you can see the actual picture.

Lets see what we have here:

Mark Thornton is a Libertarian.
Libertarians are an extremist group supported in elections by the tiniest numbers of voters.
Libertarians despise much of what government is and what it stands for and what it does.
But Libertarians are failures at the ballot box so they must come up with some sort of alternative strategy to implement their anti-government beliefs.
Mark Thornton appears on the prestigious "Lew Rockwell Show".
Rockwell is a noted Libertarian gatherer and outlet for all things Libertarian and anti-government.
Thonton, throws out his theory that maybe this idea of small government is bad. When Rockwell picks himself up off the floor, Thornton explains that he is not talking about government services or programs, just the way the House of Representatives functions. What we need is 10,000 people serving in the House of Representatives.
Meril36, a Libertarian herself, posts the thought here. Other noted Libertarians run to her support with the idea.

There is more than one way to skin a cat says the old adage. And it appears that the Libertarians are now taking a page from other extremist groups whose anti-government mantra has been "bleed the beast". In other words, destroy the government and its power by bleeding it dry of money, support and resources.

So the Libertarians want government out of our lives and to reduce its power in our lives. What better way to do it than this ridiculous idea to expand Congress to 10,000 people and thereby destroying Congress as any sort of functioning body.

If I were a Libertarian, I would say it is a master stroke of Machivallien political evil genius.

As I am not a Libertarian, its just a foolish and blantantly transparent ruse.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: Congress
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 5:33 pm
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Okay, here's the Congress thread.

CG, sf, be careful. Please.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Congress
Posted: Tue 18 Nov , 2008 5:43 pm
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I moved this from point a to point b so I could address it here.

Onizuka Eikichi wrote:
sauronsfinger wrote:
And it appears that the Libertarians are now taking a page from other extremist groups whose anti-government mantra has been "bleed the beast". In other words, destroy the government and its power by bleeding it dry of money, support and resources.

So the Libertarians want government out of our lives and to reduce its power in our lives. What better way to do it than this ridiculous idea to expand Congress to 10,000 people and thereby destroying Congress as any sort of functioning body.
But it wouldn't make it un-functional, as I have stated. Nor would it be costly, as I have stated. Technology has made such things possible, SF. Stop reiterating the same old excuses.
It would make it un-functional in the fact that a personal vote spoken by the person can not be contridicted. As an Adminstrator for a city, I would never and the laws would not allow me to ever, never, ever accept a vote from a City Councilor via email or fax or any electronic media. They have to, by law, vote in person or not be counted. Those are the laws, they are there to protect the people voting as well as those people the represent. It would be far to easy for people to either hack into the system, call in votes or other wise change the actual vote and not be the elected offical. There are laws in place to stop exactly that.

Besides as a taxpayer I want my representatives to be at the meeting, not sitting on their collective hind ends in Hawaii drinking a Mai Tai and emailing their vote in. I want them there to argue for my rights, and I think it is important that they be in the same building to do so. But that's just me, I want my representatives to actually show up for work, not phone it in.

Last edited by Ara-anna on Tue 18 Nov , 2008 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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