board77

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/28/black. ... index.html

The mob mentality is irrational in all cases, but the mentality of a mob at a Walmart at 5am on a Black Friday has to be the most destructively petty, the most shamelessly greedy and pathetic mob to ever exist in the history of mankind.

All who showed up at Walmart before 5am should be sterilized on the spot to prevent further depreciation of the human gene pool. Say I'm in a weird mood, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

That poor man and his family

Legolas the elf wrote:

All who showed up at Walmart before 5am should be sterilized on the spot to prevent further depreciation of the human gene pool.

A bit harsh, aren't you? Some of them (probably most of them) were caught up in something beyond their control, and were in just as much danger as the person that did get killed.

Nah, I agree. I saw a quick blurb on the news and thought they meant a shopper had been killed, which also would have been awful, but my reaction to which was: "these stupid asses getting themselves in trouble over nothing." An employee getting killed seems more unfortunate because they probably just weren't able to weasel out of that shift, you know? No one wants to die at a rock concert, but I guess a kick in the head or two is collateral damage when you're in the mosh pit. Just doing your job at a time where you know the shoppers will be batshit but you can't do much about it? Doesn't seem as fair.

I realize that as a Canadian, the black friday thing will go over my head somewhat/a lot. We have boxing day, but even when it comes to a movie's premiere weekend, my family and I generally avoid the ridiculous crowds out of annoyance. I'm sure we'd make even more of an effort to stay away if it meant a forceful spine realignment by hundreds of wacked-out holiday shoppers.

What an unnecessary loss of life.




*E*

Wal Mart is responsible for proper security measures and failed to provide that. They should be sued for millions - and I hope the famiily of that poor man gets every penny. The people were terrible and it was a disgusting display of consumerism and corporate greed run wild.

sauronsfinger wrote:

Wal Mart is responsible for proper security measures and failed to provide that. They should be sued for millions - and I hope the famiily of that poor man gets every penny. The people were terrible and it was a disgusting display of consumerism and corporate greed run wild.

That is a moronic point of view. There is no possible way that you can hold a corporation responsible for a stampede of people that pay no attention to trampling someone underfoot.

from halplm

Quote:

That is a moronic point of view

You never quit do you? So now my views are that of a moron.

In case you did not realize it, when any company creates an environment that is not safe for their customers or their workers, they are culpable. Each and every year we see these stories on the TV news. Wal Mart loves them. It is tremendous publicity to see hordes of consumers lining up for hours in advance - amny of them in cold climates - and rushing in like frenzied lemmings to save some money on the latest foreign made crap produced in sweat shop conditions by underpaid workers.

Wal Mart is partly responsible for this and they should pay.... and pay they will.

Just look at the bad publicity already ..... thay are paying as we speak.

I think the whole Black Friday concept has become ridiculous. Have people always acted so desperate and greedy on Black Friday?

I posted this on HoF:

Quote:

That's just horrible. I will never understand how people get themselves into that kind of a state, where they have such a disregard for safety and human life--all over material goods?! It's incomprehensible.

They took the door off the hinges.

And they'll blame someone else for their savage behavior.

(My brother currently works at Wal-mart, and this whole thing just really bothers me.)

I will add that I do not think Wal-mart should be held responsible for this unless they had ignored similar events in the past. I just wish someone had thought to call the police sooner or something. Perhaps the police could have dispersed the crowd or at least made them act like human beings instead of wild animals.

I hope they identify the people responsible for inciting the crowd and taking the door off the hinges. And I hope they identify all of the people who trampled over this employee and charge them with an appropriate crime.


Lali

Has this happened at any establishments not owned by WalMart?

from the NY TImes

Quote:

Wal-Mart has successfully resisted unionization of its employees. New York State’s largest grocery union, Local 1500 of the United Food and Commercial Workers, called the death of Mr. Damour “avoidable” and demanded investigations.

“Where were the safety barriers?” said Bruce Both, the union president. “Where was security? How did store management not see dangerous numbers of customers barreling down on the store in such an unsafe manner? This is not just tragic; it rises to a level of blatant irresponsibility by Wal-Mart.”

These quotes bring up an interesting point. Since Wal Mart is one of the most notrious and infamous anti-union corporations in the world, just who is in the corporation that lobbies for the safety interests of its workers? When the local police were called to the store at between 3 and 3:30 am and had to use a bullhorn for crowd control, why was the management of the store not concerned that a potential powderkeg was in danger of erupting?

Who spoke for the Wal Mart employees assigned to be at the front of those doors and allowed them to be in the line of the stampede?

A union can and does lobby for the legitimate safety interests of its members. I remember an incident at the high school I taught at some years ago where we had a bomb threat which emptied the entire school of 1,500 students and all its staff. The principal informed me that the staff would be asked to return back into the building and we were going to help search to make sure the place was safe. As the schools duly elected Union Representative I made a quick call downtown to the union headquarters and they said in no uncertain terms that we should not honor that order. I told the principal and we waited outside for a couple of more hours while two policemen with a dog did the job in special protective outfits.

I have no idea if a union would have helped this situation in Long Island or not. But it sure would be nice to have somebody advocating for the workers safety as such a dangerous situation was allowed to build and fester and eventually take an innocent mans life.

Yeah, unions will stop customers from being insane and greedy

yeah, I'll stick with moronic.

You disagree with somebody and their views are communistic. Then you disagree with them on another issue and their views are moronic.

And it is a mystery to you why you are in the position you are in?

The fact is a simple one: nobody is representing the Wal Mart workers and looking out for their safety. Management is looking out for the wishes of the company. Who was looking out for the safety of the workers?

Calling people school yard childish names does not further discussion.

I didn't call you moronic, I called your point of view moronic, because it's based on corporations being evil, and no one being personally responsible for their own actions.

That's just hal. He always argues like that We've come to get used to it. He sure won't win any arguments that way.

Industrial accidents cause thousands of worker deaths. As sf said, unions try to reduce them and get safety measures introduced, usually against opposition from the employers. It's comforting to demonise unions if you live in a right wing universe but who else protects a worker? If Wall Mart uses crowd frenzy for its publicity they have a moral responsibility for this.

So if I call you views assholic and mentallyillish - thats okay is it? Lets not play with words here. You are engaging in name calling. Its something little children do. It does not become you at all.

The facts are clear: the workers at the Long Island Wal Mart were put to the front of the store to help with security even though the police were called to the store hours before as the crowd conditions were cause for concern. Nobody there spoke for the workers. Nobody. Instead that unfortunate man was placed inside the front doors as some sort of human shield and was killed. Why did Wal Mart either
a- not have sufficient trained security persons there to keep the peace and insure an orderly entry into the building?, or
b- ask the local police to disperse the crowd when it became too large and unruly for proper crowd control in a safe and normal shopping environment ?

If you can stop calling names long enough to answer those questions, you will have some valuable information.

And the far left lives in a world where no one is responsible for their actions, it's always the fault of society, or evil corporations, or right wing conspiracies.

Walmart desiring safety should be driven by the fact such things will cause massive publicity problems, and lose them business, not driven by their work force threatening to stop working.

sauronsfinger wrote:

So if I call you views assholic and mentallyillish - thats okay is it? Lets not play with words here. You are engaging in name calling. Its something little children do. It does not become you at all.

You should know, you worked with children vor 34 years as a teacher. If you think my views are assholic or mentallyillish, by all means. We've established that's a perfectly good debate tactic. It'll be hard to back that up, though, as those two terms are a little harder to backup IMHO.

Quote:

The facts are clear: the workers at the Long Island Wal Mart were put to the front of the store to help with security even though the police were called to the store hours before as the crowd conditions were cause for concern. Nobody there spoke for the workers. Nobody. Instead that unfortunate man was placed inside the front doors as some sort of human shield and was killed. Why did Wal Mart either
a- not have sufficient trained security persons there to keep the peace and insure an orderly entry into the building?, or
b- ask the local police to disperse the crowd when it became too large and unruly for proper crowd control in a safe and normal shopping environment ?

If you can stop calling names long enough to answer those questions, you will have some valuable information.

If you would actually engage on topic, rather than inserting your left wing world view into every single discussion, there would be a lot less osgiliation.

But they apparently did not care about those things. In past years they have had ugly scenes - maybe nothing as bad as this but ugly just the same with frenzied crowds rushing in to save a few dollars on foreign made goods.

Tosh asks the critical quesion: WHO ELSE PROTECTS WORKERS? In this case it is obvious the corporation did nothing and as Tosh said

Quote:

they have a moral responsibility for this

You will not answer the questions Hal because the answers are obvious.... Stevie Wonder could see them.

Wal Mart is motivated by one thing and only one thing and that is profit. It eats up profit to hire expensve well trained persons to handle a crowd like that - a crowd the corporation created with its advertising and enticements. It eats up profits if cooler heads would have prevailed and the police dispersed the crowd because then no sales could have been rung up on the cash registers.

This has nothing to do with left wing or a chicken wing for that matter. It has everything to do with responsible decisions of running a business that employs peopole and serves the public.