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LOL attacks president Bush

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 3:37 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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Well, I still think you both are great, but I agree with Holby and Jewel.

I didn't like Clinton, and I didn't want Obama to be president. But you can be darn sure that if I ever had the chance to meet either one in person, I would consider it an honor. As for Kim Jong Il or someone like him, I still respect his office, and if I were invited to meet him face-to-face, I would never dream of trying to attack him or show disrespect for him in any way that was physical. (Part of that is the fact that I value my life and my liberty. I don't want to get shot or sent to jail.)

Yeah, it was just a shoe and Bush is just a guy. But, I don't know, doesn't that make it clearer? I wouldn't like it if someone threw a shoe at anyone here, and there are even people here I don't like. I still wouldn't think it's funny for them to be insulted like that.


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yovargas
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 3:44 pm
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When I was a kid, my brother threw a shoe at me. It hit my thumb so hard he bent it back a fractured it. It really hurt and I had to wear a silly-looking popsicle stick thingy on my thumb to school for weeks. :bawl:

(I also just remember my mom used to have the weird tendency to throw her shoes at my dad when she got really angry with him. :scratch: )


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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 4:12 pm
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I threw a shoe at my brother once. Or maybe that was the other way around. :scratch: I can't remember now.

I also kicked off a high heel shoe once in a fit of rage (probably mad at my mom about something), and it landed square in my favorite porcelain doll's face, shattering half of it. :(

I made her an eye patch because it creeped me out to look at her. She was like a Victorian pirate doll.


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 4:47 pm
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Eruname
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 5:04 pm
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LalaithUrwen wrote:
Yeah, it was just a shoe and Bush is just a guy. But, I don't know, doesn't that make it clearer? I wouldn't like it if someone threw a shoe at anyone here, and there are even people here I don't like. I still wouldn't think it's funny for them to be insulted like that.
Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! I find it frustrating that I'm trying to be convinced that I should laugh at it and revel in a "he got what's coming to him" attitude in regards to something I find distasteful.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 5:33 pm
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Eru, nobody's telling you how you should feel, or what you should find funny.

I for one am only saying why I personally feel he's fair game. Your mileage may vary.

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 6:31 pm
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Does it strike anybody else that throwing a shoe at the president because you believe he has started an unjust war is completely ridiculous? Honestly. Both punishment and protest should be equal to the authority of the perpetrator and the extent of the crimes. I hardly think that throwing a shoe can be considered an adequate form of protest given the nature of the crimes that Bush has been accused of. Okay, maybe in Iraq it's normal to throw a shoe at a guy. But Bush is NOT "just a guy." He's the president of the United States. I vehemently disagree with his policies in Iraq and I believe that he should be held accountable for any of his actions that could be deemed illegal. But throwing a shoe at him is neither a mature nor appropriate method of punishment. The guy who threw the shoe is a reporter. Surely he could have found other channels of protest that did not involve such a juvenile reaction. I honestly don't understand how anyone can get any sort of satisfaction that Bush got a shoe thrown at him. What good does it do? If you believe that Bush committed war crimes or started an unjust war, then you're saying he is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people or more (I'm not arguing for or against this, by the way). And the appropriate course of action is to throw a shoe at him? :scratch: That just makes no sense to me.


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Jude
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 6:36 pm
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Fine. But what hope has the average Iraqi of initiating impeachment proceedings, or holding him accountable?

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 6:56 pm
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I think this is a cultural thing. In Ireland, and most of Europe we don't have such a thing as "Respect the office". You respect the person holding the office, or its not respect. I remember hearing "You salute the rank, not the person" in some movie, or maybe Band of Brothers, and thinking "What a load of bollocks". I mean, sure, for the Army to work, you have to salute your superiors and follow their orders. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them, or respect them. Respect is earned, not conferred by office.

As for whether it was an "appropriate" form of protest, thats different. Is it appropriate to chain yourself to railings and burn your Bra? Those things were done by the suffragettes to raise awareness, not because they felt it was appropriate or because they felt it proved anything. This guy took an avenue open to him that would get the whole World talking. And it worked. It raised awareness. Would an article in his paper have caused this discussion?

Frankly, I don't find it particularly hilarious, and even less so that this guy will probably be held in prison longer than a convicted murderer or rapist. The point is, to all intents and purposes GWB is above the law. Lets say someone wanted to try him for War Crimes. Exactly how would they go about achieving that in this political world, where the US is supreme force and therefore supreme authority. All we can hope is that his successor will be more stable, more intelligent and less truculent. because his office gives him the power to do whatever the hell he likes.

Its how he uses that power that will earn him respect, not an inauguration ceremony.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 7:23 pm
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Oddly, elsha's post read like a pretty good summary of why it is funny to me.


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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 8:17 pm
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Tossing shoes at someone and calling them a dog are both serious insults in Arab culture. Sort of like flipping someone the bird and describing their relationships with family members in our culture. Did it do any good? Of course not. But it made a very frustrated man feel better. And to us, coming from a different cultural context, it just seemed funny. I mean, really, who throws a shoe?

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Jude
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 8:22 pm
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Lali, apparently. Or her brother.
:whistle:

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 8:39 pm
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A good instinctive politician would attempt to talk privately with the journalist afterwards and request publically that he should not suffer for the protest.
Not going to happen though is it?

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 8:40 pm
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Or Eddie Murphy's Mom! Language warning...

http://www.spike.com/video/moms-boomerang-shoe/2819742" target="_blank

God it must be 20 years since I last saw that ;)

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 9:20 pm
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If this had happened a year ago, I suspect the reaction of many people would be very different. But given the realities of the timing of it all, most just shrug their shoulders as Bush runs out the door for the last time.

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 9:27 pm
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Why did he throw the first shoe? To give Bush heel. Why did he throw the second? A tech guy told him that when all else fails, you should try rebooting.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Wed 17 Dec , 2008 9:50 pm
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Lali wrote:
I didn't like Clinton, and I didn't want Obama to be president. But you can be darn sure that if I ever had the chance to meet either one in person, I would consider it an honor.
I think you are confusing some things. I'd imagine that the reporter has no respect for Bush because of what has been happening in Iraq. We didn't rush in, tear down Saddam, and leave quietly, so that the freed Iraqis can put their country back together. We occupied. We allowed US contractors to go in be their own police, and they shot innocent people. We consistently told the world that despite the wrongs we committed, they can eat our spit. Bush hasn't done anything respectable. Clinton, in my opinion, was a respectable president despite his affair. Obama has done some greatly respectable things. Respect comes from another's actions, not their rank, nor who they are. I'd be honored to meet George Bush, too, but I would still not have any respect for him.

Eru, no one is telling you how you should feel. We're discussing. We're disagreeing. Isn't that why this forum is here?
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Fine. But what hope has the average Iraqi of initiating impeachment proceedings, or holding him accountable?
I asked this very question on the previous page. I wish someone would provide some suggestion.

I watched the shoe incident over and over again while watching MSNBC. I still think it is hilarious. I watched Bush afterwards in an interview say: I don't care that he threw a shoe at me. I agree with Bush. I could care less about some reporter from another culture insulting the American president, just the same if he insulted me. My ego isn't so fragile as to be affected by some insult.

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Berhael
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Thu 18 Dec , 2008 12:08 am
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I'm still agreeing with Alatar and TED. And nobody is telling anybody how they should feel. :)

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Thu 18 Dec , 2008 4:41 am
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:

I think you are confusing some things.
No, I am not confusing anything, and I am allowed to have a different viewpoint than you. I simply disagree with your abysmal view of Bush. While I do not think he's a saint and I do think he's made serious mistakes and done things with which I disagree (and dislike), I do not think he's the horrible villain you've described.


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: LOL attacks president Bush
Posted: Thu 18 Dec , 2008 5:37 am
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This may actually be the first negative reaction Bush himself has gotten from his decisions as President. He's a remakrably insulated person, not allowing much in the way of dissent in his inner circle.

The shoes may be the biggest "we don't agree" he's ever gotten beyond "sir, some unenlightened fools out there don't agree". If that is the case, then I heartily applaud it.

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