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Coverage from around the world......

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Lidless
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 7:30 am
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Lurker wrote:
You don't just plan an inauguration without learning who the President will be. It's like planning a wedding without a groom. From my point of view, inaugurations are catered to the person who won the election. Plans start when he got elected, that's why I said it could have been scaled down.
First off, you obviously do not know women.

Secondly, what were the frivolities? The balls? All but one were paid for by private donations - rather like the myriad of post-Oscar parties. All the other extra costs came from having to smoothly look after 2m people. Perhaps that is the mistake. To save money, the counters should have done a Bush and declared McCain the winner. There wouldn't have been so much of a crowd then - an excellent way of cutting costs and starting off the next government on track. Not many reporters would cover McCain's presidency or what his children were having for lunch every day - thus saving on travel, carbon footprints, and focusing the media on more important matters.

You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems that the US population really shot themselves in the foot electing Obama.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 12:39 pm
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Lidless wrote:
Lurker wrote:
You don't just plan an inauguration without learning who the President will be. It's like planning a wedding without a groom. From my point of view, inaugurations are catered to the person who won the election. Plans start when he got elected, that's why I said it could have been scaled down.
First off, you obviously do not know women.
True that! I had my wedding pretty much completely planned out by the time I was 16 - never had even been kissed by that point. I knew what my budget was going to be. Knew how much I wanted to spend on a wedding dress and a wedding ring, how many people I wanted in the wedding party, what sort of meal I wanted, at what time of day I wanted everything to take place, that it would be outdoor, etc etc etc. The only thing I didn't know was if I ever would get married and to whom :P


Plans most certainly didn't start when he got elected. The budget was set for this long before that. The only thing that changed when he got elected was the little details that made it personal to him. Kind of like when I bride asks the groom what he likes out of a certain choice of colors - she's got the plan already, he just gets to make little decisions that make it personal. Inaugurations are catered to the country, not to the person who won the election. The catering is paid for, it's just a matter of tailoring what was bought to the guest of honor after they figure out who the guest of honor is going to be. It's like being at an event and finding out the guest of honor is a vegetarian - they just change some of the dishes to vegetarian dishes. They don't re-theme the entire event. Just a dish here, a dish there.

I really don't understand why you are so stuck in the mindset that they planned and budgeted for the entire inauguration after Obama got elected. I'm just using plain old common sense to explain why that wasn't possible, but I would bet that even the smallest iota of research would reveal that that isn't the case. Do you seriously believe that it would be so easy to change? That the American public would even want it to change?

Oh, and your comparison to caring about the American Inauguration to caring about the shelling going on in Gaza was simply insulting and not even a remotely viable comparison. Yes, it's important to care about what's going around the world, but caring about civilians dying or critiquing how much money a foreign government is spending on welcoming a new elected leader - it's simply not comparible.


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 12:40 pm
Just keep singin'!
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I have done a bit of research into the cost of the inauguration, specifically the claim that Bush spent 1/3 of what Obama did.

The problem with this claim is that the figure used for Bush's inauguration did NOT include security costs, while Obama's did. With that factored in for Bush, turns out he spent about the same amount.

As far as having a "scaled down" inauguration...I think that would have been more than depressing. Horrible, in fact. Yeah, sure - there could have been less balls and less "pomp." But to be honest, the balls and the pomp aren't what costs the most money. Balls are paid for through private donations and tickets.

Okay, they could have dispensed with the parade. That would have saved on security. But tens of thousands of people would have been disappointed - and the parade is one of the most traditional things about the inauguration.

Okay, the parade itself could have been scaled down. Just Obama in a car, waving? Maybe a single trumpet? It would have been funereal.

Okay - how about no concert at the Lincoln Memorial, then? Again - that's an event that tens of thousands looked forward to and attended.

This event marked a HUGE change in our country and a much-welcomed up-swing in optimism...even in these troubled times. People need to reason to celebrate and believe things will get better. Having a somber, quiet, bare-bones inaugural would not have served us well.


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 12:55 pm
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from Halplm
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SF, things that are obvious, and common knowledge, don't have to be backed up like a PHD thesis, especially on a message board.
Truth is truth.
Facts are facts.
Opinions are opinions.

This is true in a PhD. thesis and true on message boards. If you present something as a fact, it is your obligation to lay that foundation, especially if someone then asks you to calling into question your original statement. This has been explained to you many timeswith authoritative citations in previous discussions.

Here is one such citation explaining how to properly use common knowledge in furthering any argument:


http://library.csusm.edu/plagiarism/how ... common.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Quote:
Common Knowledge
There is no clear boundary on what is considered common knowledge. Even experts on plagiarism disagree on what counts as common knowledge. For instance, many sources only consider facts — current and historical events, famous people, geographic areas, etc. — to be potentially common knowledge. Others also include nonfactual material such as folklore and common sayings. Some sources limit common knowledge to only information known by others in your class, other sources look at what is common knowledge for the broader subject area.

The two criteria that are most commonly used in deciding whether or not something is common knowledge relate to quantity: the fact can be found in numerous places and ubiquity: it is likely to be known by a lot of people. Ideally both conditions are true. A third criteria that is sometimes used is whether the information can be easily found in a general reference source.

How do you tell if you have met the quantity criteria? Some experts say that a fact is common knowledge if it can be found in three independent sources. Purdue’s Online Writing Lab recommends finding five independent sources before considering a fact common knowledge. The point is that common knowledge can be found in a variety of sources. As you do more research on a topic, you are likely to discover which facts count as common knowledge because you will encounter these facts in many places.

How do you tell if a fact is ubiquitous? Some facts may be well known within one discipline and papers written within that group may assume the information is commonly known. That same piece of information used in other situations or by ‘non-experts’ may require attribution. A good rule of thumb is to acknowledge ideas which are not common knowledge among your peers such as the other students in the course for which you are writing the paper.

How do you know if it is a general reference source? Reference sources collect together facts for easy look-up. Dictionaries, encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers are typical examples. Reference sources that focus on a specific area are not considered ‘general.’ The definition of Marfan syndrome mentioned previously came from a medical dictionary, a specialized reference source, that may not be readily available to most people. Therefore, you would probably want to cite this source if you were writing for people not familiar with medical information.
Yet again, we come back to your repeated assertion - the foundation of all your posts and the central problem I have with you - that something you observe is a fact to you. If it is obvious to you, then its a fact to you. This would be true if you were the All Powerful God of the Universe, but you are not. What is obvious to you is not at all obvious to the rest of the world.

Halplm, my problem with you is NOT
*** your political views
*** your social views
*** your opinions
*** your constant disagreeing with me
*** your snide remarks
*** your sarcasm

That is not the problem.

The problem I have with you is the way you present your points and arguments. You act as if you were Moses coming down from the Mount and you have the Truth as revealed by God in your hands to dispense to the flock. Problem is, all you are willing to do is to tell us what God gave to you and you want to hide the tablets under your robe. We are suppose to take your word as the Gospel Truth. We are suppose to take your personal observations of what is obvious to you as fact. We are suppose to take your understanding of common knowledge as documented evidence.

And I cannot and will not do that because you are not an authority. If we were having a discussion about playing professional basketball and you had played professionally for eight years and I never did - I would defer to your superior knowledge and experience making you an authority in that area. If the roles were reversed, and you were trying to tell a pro player about his own game, you would be 'talking through your ass' as Evenstar once very accurately described that situation.

You and I can end any problems we have, at least on my part, if you only document your views with supporting evidence. That is all that is asked of anyone alleging facts which are subject to dispute.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:05 pm
Just keep singin'!
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sauronsfinger wrote:
This would be true if you were the All Powerful God of the Universe, but you are not.
Can you prove that? :D

IMHO, this should have been sent to Hal in a PM, since it has to do with him and only him and nothing to do with the topic of the thread, which is "Coverage around the world."


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:11 pm
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Jewelsong - yes I can prove it.... gods don't let themselves be banned. ;) And he can smite me down if I am wrong.

And I have started a Bike Racks thread for Hal - but sadly he will not venture into it. So when he singles me out in these threads and responds to me directly, I have no other avenue but to reply where that took place.

Jewelsong, I do understand and I want this to stop. But when the other party will not participate in the Bike Racks thread set aside for him, that makes it very difficult.

It is on topic... Hal originally posted here
Quote:
I don't care that he spent the money, but It is worth pointing out the hypocracy of people that complained when Bush spent less 4 years ago, and now say it is fine and good for Obama to spend more.
That is what I took issue with and that is what he responded to. So it is on topic since it addresses issues within the thread.

But believe me, I would much rather this happened in the Bike Racks.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:30 pm
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SF, you take the word "disingenuous" to a whole new level.

You are NOT sticking to the topic of the thread at ALL. You are talking to Hal and only to Hal, not about the issues (which, in his post, is about the cost of the inaugural) but about HOW he posts about the issues.

You want to address his post? Talk about what he said. That is what I did. I did some research and found out why there were discrepancies in estimated costs. Now Hal (or anyone else) can comment on THAT.

You, on the other hand, went into a long and condescending diatribe about HOW HAL POSTS. Not anything to do with "coverage around the world." Which is the topic of the damn thread.

You DO have a choice, as does Hal. Stop responding to each other. Stop with the petty-ass bullshit. Stop with the picayune, nit-picking, zero-tolerance GARBAGE. Stop with the "It's not me, it's HIM" innocent-babe-in-the-woods CRAP.

IMHO, you are both at fault...but it takes two to tango. This time, I am talking to you.


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:35 pm
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Could you then explain to me two simple things please since you are sitting in the Chair of Judgment?

1- what the hell do Hals initial comments have to do with coverage from around the world when he was simply criticizing the Obama Inaugural as an American?

2- if he was not on topic at that point, why did YOU not jump all over his behind the way you are fronting me right now?

This was his first post in this thread
Quote:
Simply put... when all opposition voices are silenced. But have no fear, with Obama 2.0 organizing for america, the time for this is near. With his vast civil army that desires nothing more than for him to succeed, and for his agenda to be pushed out there for all americans to "understand," it's only a matter of time before we are all enlightened. And I'm sure the people in his civil army, will be able to "educate" those that don't fully grasp his wisdom.
Use that to explain the answers to my questions please.

if that is not enough, here is his second post in this thread
Quote:
Are you kidding? No hiding around here. They'll be marching in the streets, posting addresses of people on the internet, harassing you whenever they feel like it. They're working for the President! No need to hide that... after all he'll save us all!

I can't wait for my check.
Are we on topic yet? I don't think so. But it was not an issue with you or anyone else.

Last edited by sauronsfinger on Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:40 pm
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sauronsfinger wrote:
Could you then explain to me two simple things please since you are sitting in the Chair of Judgment?
*adjusts cushion in chair*
Quote:
1- what the hell do Hals initial comments have to do with coverage from around the world when he was simply criticizing the Obama Inaugural as an American?
I took the title to mean "coverage from all over" and other people have also posted about coverage in the US.
Quote:
2- if he was not on topic at that point, why did YOU not jump all over his behind the way you are fronting me right now?
I DID. In a PM. As you should have. Because now this thread is about US, unfortunately.

So I'm done with this. Rangers, feel free to split this bit off and throw it in the Bike Racks. With a lock on it.


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:42 pm
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Jewelsong
But you did not send me a PM with your ideas. You called me out publicly. Hal gets the personal and private treatment so as to not embarass him.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:52 pm
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sauronsfinger wrote:
Jewelsong
But you did not send me a PM with your ideas. You called me out publicly. Hal gets the personal and private treatment so as to not embarass him.
I've called Hal out publicly plenty of times. And so have many other people.

You counting up how many times each of you gets "called out" and "embarrassed?" Maybe it's not exactly the same? Maybe it's not perfectly fair?

Jesus on a pogo stick, man. Get over yourself.

Here, let's make it fair.

Hal, this thread is about "Coverage around the world." It's not a place to vent your anger and frustration that Obama got elected or to come barging in with dour and sour predictions of how terrible things are going to be under his leadership. It's about coverage of the inaugural ceremony. If you want to start another thread about how shitty a President Barack Obama is going to be, please do so!

Is everybody happy now?

I invite anyone who is not to bite my ass.

Honestly.


:rage:


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 1:53 pm
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Happy. :banana: :hug: :toast:

and its okay... really... its okay.

Not into biting however. ;)

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 2:41 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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I am.

*bites jewel's ass and runs away*

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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 2:42 pm
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If anyone wants me to split off the off-topic posts, I can. It's....just a lot to go through. :neutral: But I suppose if it continues I will.

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Lurker
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 2:56 pm
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Lidless wrote:
First off, you obviously do not know women.
You hit the nail on the head on that one! :damnfunny:
I must humbly admit it. I've studied at a Catholic boys school since I was 5 years old and only had a lot of contact with women when I was in university. :oops:

Personally, I don't like frivolities, when Princess invited 350 guests for our wedding (it's a very small town, so I guess she invited everybody) I had to compromise with her to have the wedding in a small church which can only fit probably 50-100 people. This is the only thing I wanted, a simple wedding, but no, she wanted the whole town to know she was getting married. It doesn't help that her dad is with the RCMP so he knows everybody.

I guess I will be saving a lot of money now so that my daughter gets the wedding of her dreams. :Q

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Wilma
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 4:02 pm
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Lurker :damnfunny:

Trust me, more could have been spent on crowd control and the public would have greatly benefited from it.

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Feredir
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 8:11 pm
 
 
When you say crowd control, do you mean to assist with the flow of pedestrian/vehicular traffic or that people were getting out of control? Just curious.


freddy


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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 9:21 pm
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I think she means assistance with pedestrian traffic. All of the roads in the areas immediately surrounding the Mall were closed. And as far as I know, no one was getting out of control at all. People were generally peaceful and patient. Most of the issues people had were with the sheer volume of people trying to enter and exit the same space in a relatively short time. I still believe that this could not have been improved, no matter how much money was spent, without drastically reducing security precautions. Just IMO.


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Feredir
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 9:26 pm
 
 
That's what I figured. I agree that there was probably nothing that could be done. I have had help to coordinate pedestrian flow out of our local fireworks for the past several years and can tell you that it is hard enough with 50-60,000 people, I can only imagine with that crowd.

All you can do is offer guidelines for people because they are going to do what they want. People are kinda like lemmings when it comes to this kind of thing, if one takes a risk or does something that isn't too wise, those that are watching wait to see if he/she makes it and then they do the same. If he doesn't then they know not to try it, maybe.

freddy


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Coverage from around the world......
Posted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 5:04 pm
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I have several friends who went to the inauguration (and froze their tails off!) Apparently the crowd was well-behaved and there were no real incidents. But they had many more people in a couple of areas than they anticipated and they did not have enough security people there to man the gates and so on. There was apparently a huge snafu in the "purple" area and one other area and hundreds of people who had tickets never got inside the designated area, due to bottle-necking and so on.

My friends had tickets to the purple area and DID get in, but she said it was very, very crowded. However, it was apparently quite orderly, even in the bottleneck.

The organizers are investigating what happened to cause the bottleneck at the problem locations...but I think the event went off fairly well, considering the vast numbers of people and other factors. Crowd control and security at an event of that magnitude is not easy task.


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