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State of the State of California

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 7:47 pm
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Quote:
and the way those Socialists got the polar ice caps to lose all that ice in such a short period of time
You mean those polar icecaps which are at a thirty year high?

No, I mean the academic fraud of fudged temperature statistics and manipulated, nonexistent 'hockey sticks' and the rest of the Big Con.

I'm particularly thinking of the way those Socialists got the Medieval Warm period to disappear in such a short period of time. Until they got caught.

What a shame there hasn't been any warming for a decade, cooling since 2004, record high polar ice, record low hurricane activity, declining seawater temperatures, sea-level rise remaining stubbornly linear....and every year, yet again, the 'projections' of the alarmists prove to be laughably wrong. Their vaunted models have a predictive value of precisely ZERO.

BTW, where's the equatorial hotspot? Found it yet?

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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 7:55 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
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Source: NASA

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:06 pm
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Catch up, Pippin. Look at the 2009 data- the most ice since 1979. The 'ice-free North Pole' we were supposed to get is just another in the parade of bogus predictions by the alarmists.

BTW, that British expedition to measure ice thickness not only had to be humiliatingly rescued due to savage cold weather- it turns out that avg thickness has *increased* by a half-meter over last March.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:07 pm
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Solicitr - Pippin honestly presented the latest data she had.

Where is yours?

Do you have a more recent version of the same map so we can compare it to the one Pippin presented?

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laureanna
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:33 am
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Remember guys, do not feed the trolls. Now I know you each consider the other to be a troll, so act accordingly :D

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:53 pm
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Pop quiz:

If all the Arctic sea ice were to melt tomorrow, what would the average increase in sea levels be?

Last edited by solicitr on Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:58 pm
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I don't know why you'd expect the trend observed over the last thirty years to reverse itself simply because of an anomaly lasting a few months. :roll:
Wishful thinking perhaps? I suppose that would be the more charitable thing for me to assume.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:58 pm
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Pop quiz: If the Greenland ice sheet right next to it melted tomorrow what would the effect on sea levels be?
:roll:

Not to mention the effects on the Atlantic sea currents that keep north west Europe warm?

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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:59 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
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And trust me, it is cold enough in Wales already. :Q

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:01 pm
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Can everyone see how just ever so carefully quoting the sea ice only the equation can seem different? See how the argument gets twisted?

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:51 pm
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Well, for now the Greenland ice sheet's retreat is merely revealing the sites the Vikings built before it grew. :D

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ellienor
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 5:11 pm
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For a relative view of the "medieval warm period" v. today, check this out.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/ ... ml&edu=mid" target="_blank

Kind of refutes the idea that the medieval warm period was anything similar to today. :roll:


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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 5:19 pm
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Great- a link straight to Michael Mann's infamous 'hockey stick' graph- probably the most discredited scientific artifact since Piltdown Man.

The whole intended purpose of Mann's statistical jiggery-pokery and fudged numbers- exposed many, many times over by now- was to erase the Medieval Warming and the Little Ice Age, which in the early 80s the Warmers had conceded knocked their whole hypothesis into the loo.

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ellienor
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 7:44 pm
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There's been almost thirty years of subsequent data since the early 1980's....just sayin'

We've just had about the warmest and driest winter on record here in the Great Plains of Denver. Cripes, the climate's changed noticeably just since I moved here in the early 90s. I mean, if the graphs were contrary to my personal reality, I might be less credulous.

You know, Soli, simple chemistry shows that more CO2=less heat radiated. Measurements taken show that the earth has indeed warmed (precipitously out of a cold period) starting in the mid-late 1800s, and particularly in the last 20-30 years. Glaciers are melting. The arctic is melting. I mean, what's it going to take? Shall we wait until the horse is all the way out of the barn and onto the next continent until we do something, when current conventional scientific consensus is that we're affecting this by CO2 emissions? :scratch:

There was quite the disinformation campaign for the dangers of smoking. Some of those deniers moved over to the paid global warming deniers front, like Singer, for one.


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solicitr
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 7:48 pm
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Quote:
There was quite the disinformation campaign for the dangers of smoking. Some of those deniers moved over to the paid global warming deniers front, like Singer, for one.
There we have it- the slander strategy. Every one of the hundreds of skeptical scientists has a cousin whose hairdresser's boyfried once bought gas at an Exxon station.
Quote:
Measurements taken show that the earth has indeed warmed (precipitously out of a cold period) starting in the mid-late 1800s, and particularly in the last 20-30 years.
Please, don't believe everything the Goracle claims. In fact the hottest decade on record was the 1930's. Global temperatures have not warmed since 1995 (excluding the El Nino spike in 1998); they have been cooling since 2004.
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Glaciers are melting. The arctic is melting.
No, it isn't.
Quote:
simple chemistry shows that more CO2=less heat radiated.
That's your problem: simple chemistry. The atmosphere isn't simple- it's mindbogglingly complex. And nobody- nobody- can assign a temperature-forcing value to atmosperic carbon that isn't just a guess.

It is the case that thye vaunted models (which completely zero out the most significant greenhouse gas of all, water) have been utter and complete failures at predicting climate. Now, in conventional, nonreligious science, a hypothesis that fails to predict further data is referred to as "wrong."
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current conventional scientific consensus is that we're affecting this by CO2 emissions?
False. Consensus is what we have regarding 'gravitational force is a function of mass over the square of distance'. Consensus is '12000 years ago we came out of the most recent Ice Age. Consensus is when just about everyone agrees. The idea that 'everyone' in the earth sciences community is on board with AGW is a demonstable falshood, a 'debate is over' dishonestly advanced by the Warmers.

Perhaps you'd like a list of *just the former AGW believers* who have turned skeptic?

Or ask yourself this: why is it that it's leading warmers like Mann and Hansen who keep getting caught fudging their data? One would think that would be the province of your imaginary corrupt Exxon-funded Holoc- er, AGW Deniers. And why is it that it's the guys like Hansen and Holdren who want to *prosecute* all disenters. Gee, that isn't the Scientific Methosd I studied.

Fact: there is not a shred of valid evidence connecting anthropogenic carbon with climate. Every supposed correlation has proven to be bogus- starting with the fabricated 'massive increasde' since 1800.
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I mean, what's it going to take? Shall we wait until the horse is all the way out of the barn and onto the next continent until we do something,
There's the punch line. "Do something." Do what? perhaps you should do the arithmetic involved in abandoning fossil fuels. Since the maximum solar energy received (noon, equatorial Sahara) is only 1kw/m^2, and the Second Law tells us that the maximum theoretical transduction can only be 15-20%, start to crank out what it would take to raise wind and solar from 3% of curent US demand to 100% of future demand. (Don't forget backups or efficient surplus production and storage for nighttime).

Or just maybe, before we totally annihilate the world economy, we should think twice about believing the unsupported claims of approved liars and Green zealots.

Last edited by solicitr on Tue 24 Mar , 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ellienor
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 8:02 pm
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Yes, the highest yearly reported temperature was 1998, but to say that its been falling since then is highly misleading. All of the 10 hottest years have been since 1998, including 2008. In other words, 1998 was the hottest year but the 2000's have been the hottest decade and, 1998 not withstanding, the overall trend remains upward. 2008 was hotter than every single year ever recorded before 1997. What you're doing here is data cherry-picking. To say that global temperatures are "dropping" is a flat out lie.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/res ... mmary.html" target="_blank
to wit:
"The last eight 5-year periods (2002-2006, 2001-2005, 2000-2004, 1999-2003, 1998-2002, 1997-2001, 1996-2000, 1995-1999), were the warmest 5-year periods (i.e. pentads) in the last 112 years of national records, illustrating the anomalous warmth of the last decade. The 9th warmest pentad was in the 1930s (1930-34), when the western U.S. was suffering from an extended drought coupled with anomalous warmth. The three warmest years on record are 1998, 2006 and 1934. In 1998, the record warmth was concentrated in the Northeast as compared with the Northwest during 1934. In 2006, much above average temperatures were present across most of the U.S. The West Coast and parts of the Ohio Valley and Southeast were above average. No state was near or below average for 2006."

Soli, I can't believe you just repeat discredited crap like you do.


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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Wed 25 Mar , 2009 8:26 am
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Quote:
Great- a link straight to Michael Mann's infamous 'hockey stick' graph- probably the most discredited scientific artifact since Piltdown Man.

The whole intended purpose of Mann's statistical jiggery-pokery and fudged numbers- exposed many, many times over by now- was to erase the Medieval Warming and the Little Ice Age, which in the early 80s the Warmers had conceded knocked their whole hypothesis into the loo.
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There we have it- the slander strategy.
Er, yes.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 05 May , 2009 2:55 pm
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It seems that Proposition 1A, which extends the tax hikes from the awful budget deal for two additional years, is so bad not even the Democratic Party can support it.

If Propositions 1C, 1D, an 1E fail, that immediately unbalances the budged. If proposition 1A fails it makes the unbalance worse in the immediate future. The whole budget deal which resulted in Assemblyman Adams being the subject of a recall for his vote in favor will collapse.

The polls show only 1F has any support. It is a very mild measure that says legislators cannot get raises while a balanced budget is not passed. In other words, the voters are revolting against the state.

Democratic Party

Neutral -- Proposition 1A
Support -- Proposition 1B
Support -- Proposition 1C
Neutral -- Proposition 1D
Neutral -- Proposition 1E
Support -- Proposition 1F

Libertarian Party

Oppose -- Proposition 1A
Oppose -- Proposition 1B
Oppose -- Proposition 1C
Oppose -- Proposition 1D
Oppose -- Proposition 1E
Support -- Proposition 1F

Republican Party

Oppose -- Proposition 1A
Oppose -- Proposition 1B
Oppose -- Proposition 1C
Oppose -- Proposition 1D
Oppose -- Proposition 1E
Oppose -- Proposition 1F

While the Democrats are neutral on 1A they are letting the unions do all the dirty work of supportin it. While the Republicans are against 1A they have donated money to Yes on 1A. In both cases they are acting against their own members.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 05 May , 2009 4:30 pm
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is there a list of these Propositions?

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: State of the State of California
Posted: Tue 05 May , 2009 4:55 pm
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Yes.

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