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PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct , 2009 10:52 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
when you make allegations it is always a good idea to document the allegations.


I already did.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sun 11 Oct , 2009 11:29 pm 
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all you did was state your own beliefs as if they need no independent evidence.

again.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov , 2009 5:35 am 
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What happens if California cannot weather its current budgetary crisis? I say do what the republicans and libertarians want: cut the taxes hoping that business will pickup and then we all watch one state go down. I think it's the easiest way to figure out who has the better idea.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov , 2009 7:14 pm 
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Actually, the Libertarian position is very different form the Republican position.

It's a given that Total Taxes = Total Spending. It's also true that Total Taxes = Direct Taxes + Indirect Taxes.

As much as libertarians dislike Direct Taxes, we despise all Indirect Taxes. Republicans, however, love Indirect Taxes.

According to Libertarians (and not Republicans) there is only one way to cut taxes, and that is to cut Total Taxes. And there's only one way to cut Total Taxes, and that's to cut Total Spending.

We'd rather pay high direct taxes than any indirect taxes. And we'd rather not pay high direct taxes.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Nov , 2009 7:27 pm 
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Quote:
Actually, the Libertarian position is very different form the Republican position.

It's a given that Total Taxes = Total Spending. It's also true that Total Taxes = Direct Taxes + Indirect Taxes.

As much as libertarians dislike Direct Taxes, we despise all Indirect Taxes. Republicans, however, love Indirect Taxes.

According to Libertarians (and not Republicans) there is only one way to cut taxes, and that is to cut Total Taxes. And there's only one way to cut Total Taxes, and that's to cut Total Spending.

We'd rather pay high direct taxes than any indirect taxes. And we'd rather not pay high direct taxes.




Which actually changes nothing that TED said in his post

Quote:
What happens if California cannot weather its current budgetary crisis? I say do what the republicans and libertarians want: cut the taxes hoping that business will pickup and then we all watch one state go down. I think it's the easiest way to figure out who has the better idea.




So one group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a tree branch while the other group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a baseball bat. The end result is still the same: a dead dog.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov , 2009 3:01 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
So one group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a tree branch while the other group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a baseball bat. The end result is still the same: a dead dog.


You'v talked about conservative right wingers and conservative right wingers, and want us to believe that somewhere in that sentence you've also talked about libertarians.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov , 2009 4:39 pm 
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from CG

Quote:
You'v talked about conservative right wingers and conservative right wingers, and want us to believe that somewhere in that sentence you've also talked about libertarians.


Congratulations for recognizing both yourself and your ideology on the far right of the political spectrum. :toast:

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov , 2009 4:43 pm 
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from CG

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You'v talked about conservative right wingers and conservative right wingers, and want us to believe that somewhere in that sentence you've also talked about libertarians.



One day you will realize that its not what you profess to believe that means diddly. It is the effect of what you believe that is important. It is the policies that would be implemented that would be important. That is why libertarians are on the radical right wing of the spectrum. In the end, you would reduce the one ally the common people have in fighting the power of major corporations and that is the power of government. All your hollow talk about drugs and lifestyle means next to nothing compared to that.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue 17 Nov , 2009 7:01 am 
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Really, sf. We all know how much you hate it when people make inferences from what you write. If we take what you write as premises and draw logical conclusions, you accuse us of twisting your words. And you are unable to handle it when someone paraphrases anything at any time.

Therefore we must deal with what you write on a strictly literal level.

You never mentioned libertarians. Not at all.

Your exact words were thus:

sf wrote:
So one group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a tree branch while the other group of conservative right wingers want to beat the dog with a baseball bat. The end result is still the same: a dead dog.


The word "libertarian" doesn't appear in there once. I read it several times through, and the word "libertarian" isn't in there, not even misspelled.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec , 2009 4:43 am 
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Well, I took the first step today. So that I may enter a partisan primary, for the second time in my life I registered as a Democrat.

So from now on, whenever I post, it is as a Democrat.

Cut taxes, cut spending. Decrease government and increase liberty.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec , 2009 4:14 am 
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Good luck. I'm sure you'll keep us well-informed on how your success comes along.

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PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec , 2009 4:01 pm 
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
Well, I took the first step today. So that I may enter a partisan primary, for the second time in my life I registered as a Democrat.

So from now on, whenever I post, it is as a Democrat.

Cut taxes, cut spending. Decrease government and increase liberty.



Did you get your offical tree-hugging pin?

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 2:43 am 
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I tried, but here in the desert the trees are a little uncomfortable to hug.

So what is the state of the state? This week it is wet and cold, with snow in the mountains.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 3:59 am 
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I'm curious as to why you chose to register as a Democrat? It's just that you obviously don't really fit into either party so I'm interested to know what made you choose. Was it just arbitrary? Or is it because California is a Democratic-majority state?


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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 4:58 am 
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Maybe he has some point to prove about the Democrats and felt he could make it more effectively registered as one?

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 1:28 pm 
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Elf Shadow and TED,
The best possible motivation for anyone to switch political parties is they feel that the current ideology and platform positions of that party are a much better fit with their current beliefs and their own stance on issues of the day. The worst possible motivation for anyone to switch political parties is a desire to find a more comfortable venue to gain elected public office being mainly motivated by selfish personal desire. The first involves an honest evaluation of your own beliefs and the current beliefs of the political party you are joining. The second involves cynical fraud and manipulation.

Of late, we have seen the second in operation far too often as elected politicians want to keep their jobs and they feel they could not win in their present party so they make the jump. The two examples which come to mind are a US House member from Alabama - Parker Griffith, who jumped from the Democrats to the Republicans and a Pennsylvania Senator - Arlen Specter, who jumped from the Republicans to the Democrats. In both cases each politician made a selfish and cynical judgment that they probably could not get elected in the future with that party so they made the jump.

And then we have the case of a politician who even ran on his parties nation wide ticket for the Vice Presidential nomination but conveniently bolted a few years later when the primary voters rejected him soundly for a Senate position from the state of Connecticut. I would rather not speak his name.

In all three cases it was personal selfishness and career greed which motivated each of them.

In the end, it is the voters who will have the real say about the honesty and motivation of anyone who jumps parties for this reason. They can take the record of that person, they can take the statements of that person, they can take the beliefs of that person and compare them to the current beliefs and platform positions of the party they claim they want to be part of. The voters will decide if that person is a true member of the party sharing beliefs and values with the rest of the party or if they are an opportunistic fraud who only is there out of a motivation of career greed.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 4:38 pm 
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elfshadow wrote:
I'm curious as to why you chose to register as a Democrat? It's just that you obviously don't really fit into either party so I'm interested to know what made you choose. Was it just arbitrary? Or is it because California is a Democratic-majority state?


My Assemblyman is a Republican, and I wish to oppose him. He's not a very good Assemblyman and deserves to be pushed out of office. If I wanted to join the majority, then in my particular part of California I'd be a Republican and support my lousy Assemblyman.

TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Maybe he has some point to prove about the Democrats and felt he could make it more effectively registered as one?


Democrats do have a Democratic Freedom Caucus and a decent record on supporting civil liberty, but they need to have their feet held to the fire every once in a while on those issues.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan , 2010 11:33 pm 
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So, you can hold their feet to the fire as a registered Democrat? Your answer is not enlightening because it doesn't state what you want to do, but infers what might be your motivation.

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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan , 2010 12:01 am 
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See what I wrote to elfie. My assemblyman is a Republican and is also quite worthless. I desire to challenge him because he is worthless. Since he is a Republican the way to challenge him is as something other than as a Republican. I could make the standard third party run in a two party system, or I could play inside one of the interchangeable two parties. Since he's in one of the two interchangeable parties I must use the other.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan , 2010 12:09 am 
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You were heard the first time.

Ranger note: To clarify, this post was not in response to C_G's post immediately before this one, but to another post that has been removed. ~elfshadow

Ranger note: In the race to edit in a clarification, I lost. ~Riverthalos

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