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 Post subject: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 3:49 am 
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Ara-anna wrote:
I do have to wonder thought, in just a few short hours President Obama will be CiC, will he or won't he invoke the Patriot Act? I wonder what the meaning of Terrorist will then be, if it stays the same....well.... :whistle:


I hope that all the "change" doesn't disappear and that he actually does do something about that gods-awful USAPATRIOT Act (I'll never call it "the Patriot Act" since there's nothing patriotic about it) but I fear that once he's the one with the power of the USAPATRIOT Act he'll discover how good an act it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 4:10 am 
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Except that Obama doesn't have the same vehemence about fighting terrorism as Bush did.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 6:22 am 
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We don't know that. All we know is that he promised to maybe withdraw from Iraq. Maybe.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 12:01 pm 
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Quote:
We don't know that. All we know is that he promised to maybe withdraw from Iraq. Maybe.


We don't know, so let's assume? That's idiotic, especially given what has been said, but then George Bush taught everyone that a president will do and say anything to drag a country into a pointless war, so that he can finish daddy's work.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 5:32 pm 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Quote:
We don't know that. All we know is that he promised to maybe withdraw from Iraq. Maybe.


We don't know, so let's assume? That's idiotic, especially given what has been said, but then George Bush taught everyone that a president will do and say anything to drag a country into a pointless war, so that he can finish daddy's work.


What do we know then? We know he is in favor of escalating the war in Afghanistan, and has promised to maybe withdraw from Iraq if it can be arranged without any inconvenience to anyone. He has come out in favor of closing Gitmo, but that doesn't mean the people at Gitmo will be released. He's made statements that seem peaceful, but then he appointed Hillary Clinton and Rahm Emanuel to cabinet positions.

I'm seeing symbolism point in one direction and substance point in another. People tell me that problematic appointments aren't a problem because instead of reflecting Obama's ideology these people who disagree with Obama in key areas related to their appointments will do Obama's bidding.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 11:10 pm 
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Obama's choices in Hilary and Rahm Emanuel don't necessarily indicate an underhanded way to continue as America the World Bruiser. What do we know? We know Obama has said he will close Gitmo, yes. We know that Obama wants out of Iraq, and Congress has been getting ready to pull out sooner if Komrade Obama isn't happy with the timetable. These are the things I have seen in the news lately. Obama has not done contradictory things, and even said he wanted to bring in a cabinet of different minded people (similar to Ol' Abe). Bringing in Rahm Emanuel and Hilary seemed to be Obama making good on that, as well as recognizing his own lack of strong military experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 11:17 pm 
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Yes, but there's also placement.

Hillary starkly disagrees with Obama on foreign policy. So make her head of a department not dedicated to foreign policy. There's got to be respectable cabinet positions that are prestegious enough for her that are also areas she agrees with Obama on.

Putting her in State is either asking for trouble or revealing that he's not in as much disagreement with her as previously thought.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 11:26 pm 
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The quality about Rahm Emanuel that I love TED is his all out, balls to the walls, take no prisoners attitude. This is most assuredly NOT going to be the Jimmy Carter or Gerald Ford White House. Emanuel knows how to win, knows what has to be done to win, and will do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Pretty'n up Palin
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan , 2009 11:52 pm 
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Quote:
Putting her in State is either asking for trouble or revealing that he's not in as much disagreement with her as previously thought.


There's a third option: Obama is putting people in positions that mirrors their experience. Just because Hilary starkly contrasts Obama's foreign policy doesn't mean that Obama is going to be bowing to her. As the Sec of State she can flex her muscles, push the Obama policy, and we, as Americans, can know that she won't be bulldozed by hawk governments. If in a year we see comments from her where she is trying to run her own show, then we'll hopefully see Obama correct his mistake, but Hilary hasn't indicated that she wants to use the position to further her foreign policy.

If Obama made a dove Sec of State, plenty of military minded Americans would be crying out how America is setting itself up as a weak state to be fucked with.

Remember, these people still answer to Obama, and he has shown that he commands the respect of others, so this won't be as divisive a cabinet as Bush.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan , 2009 8:59 pm 
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I have salvaged this from the Palin thread because 1) it's not about Palin and 2) there're the seeds of an interesting, worthwhile discussion in here regarding the merits of Obama's Cabinet choices. Keep it clean and civil guys. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan , 2009 9:48 pm 
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I know I'll never be fully satisfied with any of Obama's picks, but I find little to complain about over marty Lederman. He's replacing the rather horrible John Yoo. Lederman is anti-torture, and his views on the constitution are rather admirable for a Democrat. Yoo thought evidence obtained by torture was permissible in court and the constitution was toilet paper.

There might be something to the scrapping of the USAPATRIOT Act that some forsee with an Obama administration.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 5:42 am 
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I guess saying nice things isn't controversial enough. And here I was trying to be the nice guy for once.

Anyway, the pick for Attorney General. While it is good that he stated uneqivocably that torture is bad and that waterboarding is torture ... he has a truly horrible record on guns.

He doesn't believe in sensible gun control, he is an enemy of the 2nd amendment and the right to self defense. He has a truly irrational opposition to people owning guns.

Mixed bag. Half of him is very good. Half of him is rotton.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 6:05 am 
bioalchemist
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Don't be discouraged. The last couple days have been a bit rough on anyone and everyone who wanted a nice discussion.

Holder and Obama have indicated that they're going to junk all the previous legal arguments that were pro-torture. I find that encouraging on multiple levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 2:39 pm 
Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
I guess saying nice things isn't controversial enough. And here I was trying to be the nice guy for once.

Anyway, the pick for Attorney General. While it is good that he stated uneqivocably that torture is bad and that waterboarding is torture ... he has a truly horrible record on guns.

He doesn't believe in sensible gun control, he is an enemy of the 2nd amendment and the right to self defense. He has a truly irrational opposition to people owning guns.

Mixed bag. Half of him is very good. Half of him is rotton.



You can't eat a steak that is 1/2 spoiled without getting sick. Thank goodness the Supreme Court ruled as it did to lessen some of the blows that he will attempt to level.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 3:57 pm 
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Meanwhile Hillary's replacement.

Kirsten Gillibrand

She's against the financial industry bailout.

She's in favor of continuing the Bush tax cuts.

She's in favor of gun rights.

She has a 100% rating from the ACLU and is endorsed by the NRA.

I'm quite pleased. How did that happen? She'll be a voice of reason in the Senate.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 8:08 pm 
Are you sure she's a Democrat? :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 8:16 pm 
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Feredir wrote:
Are you sure she's a Democrat?


She doesn't seem like one to me...but I also think balance is important in government. Maybe she'll bridge some of the gaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Cabinet
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan , 2009 10:19 pm 
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She says she is. She's registered that way.

On the one hand it feeds my belief that the party divide is the mainstream versus the independents WITHIN a party, and that the mainstreams of both parties have much in common and that the independents of both parties have much in common, and the mainstreams and independents don't have much in common even in the same party.

On the other hand, an independent is unlikely to get the appointment.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 7:18 pm 
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Marijuana Reform Is Part of the Progressive Agenda So Why Are Obama's Drug Cops Already Making Pot Raids

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In response to the Change.gov poll, the administration posted a curt, one-sentence response, ‘President Obama is not in favor of the legalization of marijuana.’ The reply, though disappointing to some, was hardly unexpected. In 2004, Obama voiced support for decriminalizing pot (a policy that replaces criminal sanctions with the imposition of fines only), but fell short of endorsing legalization. (Although as a candidate for president, Obama renounced his support for decriminalization.) Less expected, however, were the actions of the Justice Department last week when U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration officials raided the office of a California medical marijuana provider, as well as two medical grow houses in Colorado. (The possession of marijuana for medical purposes is legal in both states, and nonprofit organizations may legally dispense marijuana to authorized patients under California law.) The busts outraged many drug-law-reform advocates, who were quick to point out that the new president had pledged on the campaign trail not to use Justice Department resources to circumvent state medical marijuana laws.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 7:26 pm 
Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
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Marijuana legalization (or decriminalization) has never been on the Democratic platform, as far as I know. It's prevalent among students ;) and the more libertarian-leaning Democrats, but I don't think the majority of the Democratic party has ever supported it.


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