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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 3:35 pm 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
His comment about the special olympics was hilarious. Fuck PC culture.


What will be really hilarious is when all those who are saying things like that continue saying things like that when a non-Democrat makes an un-PC comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 4:39 pm 
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This week is the week of the 100th day passing since President Obama was sworn in. The fact that opinion polls shows his support in the high 60's is amazing. Several different polls agree on that. One very telling fact is the virtual non-existant Republican leadership that would be necessary to chip away at those numbers. Stop and think about the reality of the current situation for a moment. If President Obama does not sink his own ship of state, who on the Republican side is poised to defeat him?

Lidless mentions a second term and right now that certainy looks like a real possibiity. The numbers of support for President Obama, at a time of national recssion and continuing bad economic news, seem to indicate that now only do the American people support him and his policies, but they are willing to be patient to see them bear fruit. And when you consider that there are media outlets who are pretty much dedicated to presenting all the negative information and opinion they can muster agains President Obama but they are getting nowhere, that makes this even more amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 5:47 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
Lidless mentions a second term and right now that certainy looks like a real possibiity.


I think it's a wee bit early to be speculating about that! A lot could happen in the next few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 7:15 pm 
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good point

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 7:28 pm 
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It's pretty strange.

The anti-war vote elected Obama. The pro-war crowd is crowing about what a great job he's doing not ending the wars. The progressive movement got laughed at when marijuana decrimilization was brought up.

A lot of people don't want to admit that their hopes are not being fulfilled.

Time for some new words, provided by Naomi Klein

Hopebroken and Hopesick

Quote:
All is not well in Obamafanland. It's not clear exactly what accounts for the change of mood. Maybe it was the rancid smell emanating from Treasury's latest bank bailout. Or the news that the president's chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, earned millions from the very Wall Street banks and hedge funds he is protecting from reregulation now. Or perhaps it began earlier, with Obama's silence during Israel's Gaza attack.

Whatever the last straw, a growing number of Obama enthusiasts are starting to entertain the possibility that their man is not, in fact, going to save the world if we all just hope really hard.

This is a good thing. If the superfan culture that brought Obama to power is going to transform itself into an independent political movement, one fierce enough to produce programs capable of meeting the current crises, we are all going to have to stop hoping and start demanding.

The first stage, however, is to understand fully the awkward in-between space in which many US progressive movements find themselves. To do that, we need a new language, one specific to the Obama moment. Here is a start.

Hopeover. Like a hangover, a hopeover comes from having overindulged in something that felt good at the time but wasn't really all that healthy, leading to feelings of remorse, even shame. It's the political equivalent of the crash after a sugar high. Sample sentence: "When I listened to Obama's economic speech my heart soared. But then, when I tried to tell a friend about his plans for the millions of layoffs and foreclosures, I found myself saying nothing at all. I've got a serious hopeover."

Hoper coaster. Like a roller coaster, the hoper coaster describes the intense emotional peaks and valleys of the Obama era, the veering between joy at having a president who supports safe-sex education and despondency that single-payer healthcare is off the table at the very moment when it could actually become a reality. Sample sentence: "I was so psyched when Obama said he is closing Guantánamo. But now they are fighting like mad to make sure the prisoners in Bagram have no legal rights at all. Stop this hoper coaster-I want to get off!"

Hopesick. Like the homesick, hopesick individuals are intensely nostalgic. They miss the rush of optimism from the campaign trail and are forever trying to recapture that warm, hopey feeling-usually by exaggerating the significance of relatively minor acts of Obama decency. Sample sentences: "I was feeling really hopesick about the escalation in Afghanistan, but then I watched a YouTube video of Michelle in her organic garden and it felt like inauguration day all over again. A few hours later, when I heard that the Obama administration was boycotting a major UN racism conference, the hopesickness came back hard. So I watched slideshows of Michelle wearing clothes made by ethnically diverse independent fashion designers, and that sort of helped."

Hope fiend. With hope receding, the hope fiend, like the dope fiend, goes into serious withdrawal, willing to do anything to chase the buzz. (Closely related to hopesickness but more severe, usually affecting middle-aged males.) Sample sentence: "Joe told me he actually believes Obama deliberately brought in Summers so that he would blow the bailout, and then Obama would have the excuse he needs to do what he really wants: nationalize the banks and turn them into credit unions. What a hope fiend!"

Hopebreak. Like the heartbroken lover, the hopebroken Obama-ite is not mad but terribly sad. She projected messianic powers on to Obama and is now inconsolable in her disappointment. Sample sentence: "I really believed Obama would finally force us to confront the legacy of slavery in this country and start a serious national conversation about race. But now whenever he seems to mention race, he's using twisted legal arguments to keep us from even confronting the crimes of the Bush years. Every time I hear him say ‘move forward,' I'm hopebroken all over again."

Hopelash. Like a backlash, hopelash is a 180-degree reversal of everything Obama-related. Sufferers were once Obama's most passionate evangelists. Now they are his angriest critics. Sample sentence: "At least with Bush everyone knew he was an asshole. Now we've got the same wars, the same lawless prisons, the same Washington corruption, but everyone is cheering like Stepford wives. It's time for a full-on hopelash."

In trying to name these various hope-related ailments, I found myself wondering what the late Studs Terkel would have said about our collective hopeover. He surely would have urged us not to give in to despair. I reached for one of his last books, Hope Dies Last. I didn't have to read long. The book opens with the words: "Hope has never trickled down. It has always sprung up."

And that pretty much says it all. Hope was a fine slogan when rooting for a long-shot presidential candidate. But as a posture toward the president of the most powerful nation on earth, it is dangerously deferential. The task as we move forward (as Obama likes to say) is not to abandon hope but to find more appropriate homes for it-in the factories, neighborhoods and schools where tactics like sit-ins, squats and occupations are seeing a resurgence.

Political scientist Sam Gindin wrote recently that the labor movement can do more than protect the status quo. It can demand, for instance, that shuttered auto plants be converted into green-future factories, capable of producing mass-transit vehicles and technology for a renewable energy system. "Being realistic means taking hope out of speeches," he wrote, "and putting it in the hands of workers."

Which brings me to the final entry in the lexicon.

Hoperoots. Sample sentence: "It's time to stop waiting for hope to be handed down, and start pushing it up, from the hoperoots."

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 8:30 pm 
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We have more than a few mature people in this land who know how to exercise patience. And those same people know that this is not an administration that is a one trick pony. A public approval rating of 69% shows that folks like Naomi Klein are in a rather small group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Klein" target="_blank" target="_blank

If you read about Ms. Klein, she is hardly typical of Americans in this country who voted for Obama for President of the USA. While I have no problem with her as a person or as a writer, she has many of the markings of someone who would fight to be first for the lifeboats in deserting the good ship SS Obama. This is not at all shocking.

I see a group of top advisers in the office of Rahm Emanuel. In one hand they have several current polls indicating that the level of support for the President is in the high 60's and the highest for any US President in twenty years. In the other they have the article by a Canadian writer. Circular file anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr , 2009 8:51 pm 
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:scratch: I don't remeber anything Obama said about ending the war in Afganistan, only Iraq and he is doing that. In fact he said he was going to up the millitary in Afganistan. It is one of the reasons I voted for him, because he was actually going after bin Ladin and the real terrorists of 911.

That said I think we are years behind in the Afgan/Pakistan issue, especially since Al Quida is 60 miles away from the capital of Pakistan (where their nukes are). But Iraq is all clear of WMD now....... :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 12:46 am 
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The CBS/NY Times poll out today reports very much the same numbers:

Quote:
(CBS) As his 100th day approaches, more than two in three Americans approve of the job Barack Obama is doing as president, a new CBS News/New York Times survey finds.

But while the president earns high marks from Democrats and independents, he has not won the support of Republicans, less than one third of whom approve of the president's job performance so far.

Mr. Obama's 68 percent approval rating at the 100 day mark is better than the ratings of his two immediate predecessors, George W. Bush (whose approval at this point was 56 percent) and Bill Clinton (whose approval was 49 percent). Going back to 1953, only two presidents - John F. Kennedy (83 percent) and Dwight Eisenhower (72 percent) - had a higher approval rating at this point in their terms.

The president has the overwhelming support of Democrats, nine in ten of whom approve of the president. Just 31 percent of Republicans agree, however. The party divisions are similar to those seen under President's George W. Bush and Clinton - Mr. Bush had the support of just 35 percent of Democrats at the 100 days mark, while Mr. Clinton was backed by just 26 percent of Republicans at this point.

Mr. Obama enjoys the approval of Americans overall on every major issue: Iraq (63 percent approval), the economy (61 percent), foreign policy (59 percent), Afghanistan (56 percent) and terrorism (55 percent). He is widely seen as a different kind of politician, one who Americans say cares about them and can unite different groups. Most say he has already made progress on critical issues and that he is tough enough to make the hard decisions required of a president.


The margin between those who support and do not support the President is an amazing 45 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 2:08 am 
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Analyzing Obama's presidency at this point is idiotic. The media needs to feed the instant culture we have today, so we get these bloggers, anchors, and commentators discussing every little thing about the president, and what this nuance means for tomorrow, and what tomorrow's nuance means for next week, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 2:12 am 
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TED , I certainly second your thought that we have far too many bloggers, message board posters, and media types over analyzing every little thing associated with President Obama and his administrations. But that is just part and parcel of the new 24/7/365 news cycle with never ending coverage and access to computers for all of us.

I do think that reliable public opinion polls do give us a snapshot in time of how the nation feels about its government and its leaders. And that sort of thing is important in building national consensus and support for programs that are placed for consideration before the Congress.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 4:38 am 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Analyzing Obama's presidency at this point is idiotic. The media needs to feed the instant culture we have today, so we get these bloggers, anchors, and commentators discussing every little thing about the president, and what this nuance means for tomorrow, and what tomorrow's nuance means for next week, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.


Amen. Amen. Amen.

Jeezus, what a bunch - the attention span of gnats. Instant gratification!!!!

As for Afghanistan? Does anyone really think the NATO forces have done more than die? In Iraq the US bought off the warlords and by doing so bought the appearance of "change". But I bet that within 5 years at the absolute outside there will be a new Saddam Hussein in power. Afghanistan? They're talking about letting the Taliban back to the table, people. It's coming, you watch and wait.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 2:31 pm 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Analyzing Obama's presidency at this point is idiotic. The media needs to feed the instant culture we have today, so we get these bloggers, anchors, and commentators discussing every little thing about the president, and what this nuance means for tomorrow, and what tomorrow's nuance means for next week, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.


I disagree. There is no magic "no criticism allowed" grace period for any politician, even Obama. When any politician messes up, whether brand new or senior stateman, it is appropriate to say so. If you want to ensure that his poll numbers stay high I guess an "Obama zone of protection" would certainly do the trick, and the majority of the press is certainly giving him that. Maybe Obama should be asked if his ideas and accomplishments need such a zone of protection.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 3:43 pm 
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Since there is no such zone of protection asking such a question would be a pointless exercise.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 4:16 pm 
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Analyzing Obama's presidency at this point is idiotic. The media needs to feed the instant culture we have today, so we get these bloggers, anchors, and commentators discussing every little thing about the president, and what this nuance means for tomorrow, and what tomorrow's nuance means for next week, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.


I disagree. There is no magic "no criticism allowed" grace period for any politician, even Obama. When any politician messes up, whether brand new or senior stateman, it is appropriate to say so. If you want to ensure that his poll numbers stay high I guess an "Obama zone of protection" would certainly do the trick, and the majority of the press is certainly giving him that. Maybe Obama should be asked if his ideas and accomplishments need such a zone of protection.



It's not a matter of "not criticizing" the president, but a matter of shrieking that he's already failed. That's idiotic. Of course he's open to criticism, I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 5:50 pm 
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Saying he's had failures and saying he's failed are two different things.

But one could consider it a failure that he's adopted so many of Bush's policies.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 5:52 pm 
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Yeah... right. That must explain his 69% support rating in several polls. :roll:

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 6:16 pm 
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So are you saying his above 60% approval rating is because he adopted so many Bush policies?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 6:21 pm 
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When somebody puts in the smilie face rolling their eyes after a statement that is to be taken as sarcasm.

I have not heard a single person.... okay , I guess you are a person .... say what you said about Obama adopting Bush policies. I find your premise to be not a serious one. In fact, I do not even believe that you believe what you wrote is true or accurate.

Your opinion is often stated in overly dramatic or exaggerated terms to garner attention or make a less than subtle point. Thats okay and you have a right to your own style. Here is one example

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6155


But yet again, you are outside the Obama Democratic support circles and really are not at all plugged in to party opinion or even public opinion. No venom or vitriol is intended, but I do not consider your opinion about President Obama to be anything but a very clear example of the marganalized extremism that was on display during the teabagging parties.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr , 2009 10:17 pm 
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Obama has repealed a lot of Bush policies, too. What does that say?

CG, I said analyzing his first hundred days is pointless. This is a lot different from saying that Obama should not criticized. I don't want to read about how Obama has "failed" anymore than has "succeeded". As far as I'm concerned, he has succeeded, and failed at very little. He passed the Stimulus Bill, but we're still in the recession. He released torture memos, but has not been staunch on whether he thinks those who penned the memos should face charges. The only thing that I will say as a success is what he did to paychecks for Americans. I take home more money which is helpful right now. I'll be paying for it next year, but I have time to get some shit together. I hope you enjoyed blowing over your strawman.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama's Choices
PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr , 2009 4:26 pm 
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CNN Polls indicate:

Job as President:
63% approve
29% disapprove
8% Unsure

Economy
Does President Obama have a clear plan to fix the economy
58% yes
42% no

Energy
Obama handling the engery policy
63% approve
33% disapprove

Health Care
57% approve
41% disapprove
2% unsure

Education
65% approve
30% disapprove
5% no opinion

Military Conflicts
53% approve
46% disapprove
1% no opinion


Overall Job as President for first 100 days (274,000 + votes)
Excellent 30%
Above Average 30%
Average 17%
Poor 11%
Very Poor 11%

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