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Great Editorial cartoon

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:01 pm
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Rebecca - I thought there was something about a hearing before they took effect?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:11 pm
Grumpy cuz I can be
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There isn't.
We are asking you to stop. If you continue to post while we figure this out we will have to relegate you to the Bike Racks.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:25 pm
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Quote:
Your attempt to narrow it down as only being used to "get reliable information that is useful" is a strawman to make your argument valid. It is not what we are discussiong here, nor is it relevant to this discussion how reliable or useful the information obtained is. The fact information IS obtained, and may be used to help save lives, is what is relevant.
That isn't a strawman. The value of the information is exactly at the heart of the torture debate because the other options are vindictive and make us no better than the people we tortured. Does humiliation lead to valuable information? Does punishment lead to valuable information? These are important questions to consider when discussing torture. The fact that information is obtained is misleading because bad information is still bad information, and makes the torture simply for sadistic fun.

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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:47 pm
Just keep singin'!
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I'm pleased to see so many people have joined the discussion.

Hal, I have to say that your posts all seem to indicate that you support torture as an interrogation technique. It seems that you are saying you support it because it may save lives. It will save lives, you say, if the information extracted can help stop a crime.

Most evidence seems to say that information obtained under torture is not reliable. Therefore, it will not save lives.

Then you say that whether the information is reliable is not the point. That bringing it up is a "strawman." But I thought the whole reason you were supporting it was to extract information, perhaps to stop a crime and save a life.

So I am unclear on what your position here is. Do you think that the USA should introduce torture as a legal method for extracting information. And if so, when should it be used? Who should administer it? Should it be used in regular prisons and jails or only in special holding centers? Who should it be used on?

Maybe those are too many questions. But it seems, from your posts, that you are, in fact, condoning and advocating torture as a regular method of interrogation in the USA. Are you? If not, what is your position on torture in this country?

It also seems, from your posts, that you think Obama should continue with what was going on a Gitmo, because the techniques there were, in fact, producing viable and useful information. If you do think that, I would be very interested in seeing any evidence of it. From what I have read, not one useful scrap of info came out of the waterboarding and other techniques used there.


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Berhael
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:53 pm
Milk and kisses
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I'm quite surprised that people are still trying to have a rational discussion with hal. Haven't you guys learnt that he likes to argue for argument's sake?

If I were you I'd just focus on the donuts. *chomp*

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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:55 pm
Just keep singin'!
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Berhael wrote:
I'm quite surprised that people are still trying to have a rational discussion with hal. Haven't you guys learnt that he likes to argue for argument's sake?
Sorry, Ber. You're right, of course.

I don't like donuts, though. Can I have some flan?


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Berhael
Post subject: Re: Great Editorial cartoon
Posted: Fri 23 Jan , 2009 11:57 pm
Milk and kisses
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Oooh, Spanish or French flan? They're quite different, you know...

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